Discuss John 11

  • Richard H Priday - 2 weeks ago
    Further examination of John 16:8 as to righteousness

    John 16:8 And when He comes, He will convict the world in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: 9in regard to sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father and you will no longer see Me; 11and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world has been condemned.

    I have examined this verse in light of sin; but thought before I continue with the other two aspects of the verse in detail; I should mention that UNBELIEF is something that not only the world but all of us-in reality are in a state of before being regenerated; as that is the first role of the Holy Spirit. When Christ was present on earth; it was clear that after multitudes; presumably almost everyone in Israel knew of Christ's undeniable miracles ( John 11:47) and also of the Apostles ( Acts 4:16) that deliberate unbelief would be the precursor of blasphemy of the Holy Ghost; where Beelzebub was said to be the source of Christ's strength; or others such as the sons of Sceva and the sorcerer in Acts would attempt to gain this power in their own strength or attempt to get it through money. The end result; clearly didn't go too well for these individuals; and no forgiveness was offered for blasphemy of the Spirit ( Mark 3:29 said early in Christ's ministry). Christ said all things against Him or the Father could be forgiven ( Matt. 12:32) but not against the Holy Spirit-and that also is set for the future reign of the Lord on the earth as well. Let us all be as the man in Mark 9:24 and ask Jesus to help us with our unbelief!

    Now as to righteousness. Jesus says because He goes to the Father and we no longer see Him that the Spirit testifies of righteousness. I would think this implies that all who truly know Christ now are as the result of the unseen work of the Spirit.

    As odd as it seems; when Christ was here physically as to Him being God that had to be revealed from above.
  • BJGibson - In Reply - 2 weeks ago
    "I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:" John 11:25 KJV

    "And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God." Luke 18:27 KJV

    "Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth." Mark 9:23 KJV

    I pray you receive and accept God's word concerning your request. Amen.
  • Oseas - 2 months ago
    John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with GOD, and the Word was GOD.

    The Word of GOD is from everlasting to everlasting, the Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing. If the believers(each one) keep GOD's Word in the heart, it means GOD is in him, and he has Life because GOD is Life.

    JESUS said: John 5:39-40:->39 Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have ETERNAL life(the Word is GOD,God is Life):and they are they which testify of me-JESUS.40 And ye will not come to me,that ye might have life?JESUS said: John 11: 26:Whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.Believest thou this?Phi.3:20-21:-> 20 Our conversation is in heaven(heaven? Ephesians 1:3-8); from whence also we look for the Saviour,the Lord Jesus Christ:21 Who shall CHANGE our vile body,that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body(this is not a magic,it is worked,understand),according to the working whereby He-JESUS-is able even to subdue all things unto himself.(as Luke 20:35-36.Take a look) .

    Furthermore they have Light.Jo.1:4 In him-JESUS-was Life;and the Life was the Light of men.1Jo.1:5-7: ->5...GOD is Light,and in Him is no darkness at all.6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him,and walk in darkness,we lie, and do not the Truth:7 But if we walk in the Light,s he is in the light,we have fellowship one with another,and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin.

    1Corinthians 15:51-54

    51Behold,I shew you a mystery;We shall not all sleep,but we shall all be changed,

    52In a moment...at the last trump:for the trumpet shall sound,and the dead shall be raised incorruptible,and we shall be changed.

    53For this corruptible must put on incorruption,and this mortal must put on immortality.

    54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption,and this mortal shall have put on immortality,then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written,Death is swallowed up in victory.

    The Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing.

    GOD BLESS
  • Richard H Priday - 2 months ago
    More thoughts on "Prophets" today

    The other day I discussed roles of men and women; and showed the case of Miriam and good and bad things about her behavior.

    This situation shows how in general how a true Prophet can have certain sins that cause a downfall. Another example is in 1 Kings 13 starting in verse 11. His disobedience in stopping anywhere to eat on his journey back from a prophetic mission cost him his life. This story shows not only his disobedience; but the obstinance of the other prophet who enticed him to eat with him. The Spirit entered him much as it did with Balaam after he accepted the offer with a true word from God (in this case about his demise). We could look at Cephus as another example in John 11:50. So we can see several situations here:

    1. A TRUE Prophet that errs in obedience to God

    2. A FALSE Prophet that the Lord still uses to some extent for His purposes

    3. Someone not designated as a Prophet who still says something to that affect.

    We could look at the third example in the case of Pontius Pilate; who put the inscription in Matthew 27:37 on being the King of the Jews. John 19:22 further expounds on this theme in Pilate's declaration that it should stand. Whether his reasonings were mocking; or an honest assesment of his innocence could be questioned-it is clear that he never came to true repentance even if his sins were less serious than those of the others who were complicit or outright demanded he be crucified and a murder (Barabbas) released.

    The story of Balaam in Numbers 22 should teach us some object lessons as well. One may assume that his story was an ancient tale and not of any importance today other than looking for false prophecies in general. This isn't true because this man was hired for money and we see evidence in the last days of those looking for "filthy lucre" ( 1 Timothy 3 and a couple other places in the N.T.) To say what a megachurch Pastor wants to hear to draw multitudes occurs today.
  • Bennymkje - 2 months ago
    Mark 14:1-9 "In Bethany"

    "And being in Bethany in the house of Simon the leper, as he sat at meat, there came a woman having an alabaster box of ointment of spikenard very precious; and she brake the box, and poured it on his head."(v.3)

    All the four gospels carry this incident where the woman had prescience to anoint Jesus for his burial. None present there except Jesus who understood the significance of her action. "He (Jesus Christ) knew all men, and needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man."Besides he knew what he was there for, among them and also knew where he was going to. His deity was as the Word become flesh. In Luke we read thus, "For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end."( Luke 22:37)

    How can a woman of ill repute find the right occasion to be born again or in this case, Mary as John gives her a name, break the box unless her faith and of Christ was one?( John 12:3) God breathed into man and made him a living soul. Faith is what explains this relationship between God and man. "Faith is one."(Ep.4:5) So in her action she poured out herself in order to prepare him beforehand for her burial.

    What is the significance of Bethany? In the Gospel of John Jesus was in the company of Lazarus whom he had raised from death. "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live."( John 11:25).

    The alabaster box is similar to the earthen vessel that Jeremiah broke as commanded of God. The box doubles for Mary whose faith became a memorial unto her. St Mark juxtaposes this with the breaking of bread during the Last supper.(v.22)
  • Richard H Priday - 2 months ago
    Resurrection Day ( 1 Corinthians 15:20-23)

    20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

    21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

    22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

    23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

    Death is an enemy; and verse 26 of this chapter indicates that it will eventually be eliminated. Jesus was the "first of the firstfruits" so to speak; which extends through the Rapture/Resurrection event of the righteous; through the Revelation 14:4 event of the translation of the 144,000. After this we will have the Second Coming when those that survive until that time physically will survive to repopulate the earth in the Millennial period; followed by the time the Heavenly Jerusalem comes down and God the Father dwells with men (v. 24).

    It is hard to comprehend let alone understand all the mysteries of His death; burial and resurrection. It is as a grand play on stage; except that the pathos is real; and His atonement was sufficient for us all to deliver our sins as far as the east is from the west. ( Psalm 103:12). He ever lives to intercede for His people ( Hebrews 7:25). He first rose from the dead and we shall likewise. He who believes in Him will never die ( John 11:25-26) even though he dies physically in reality it is only the body that sleeps as we see about Lazarus earlier in that chapter. We have hope unlike the world for those "fallen asleep" ( 1 Thess. 4:14-18).

    All of creation also is awaiting the change and groans until now ( Romans 8:23). For those who believe the last scene of this real life drama is glorious and never ending; while there is no peace for the wicked ( Isaiah 48:22; etal). Let that sink in as the world in its ignorance turns this glorious day into a mockery.

    Maranatha. Lord come soon!

    Agape.
  • Richard H Priday - 2 months ago
    Comparing the Resurection to the Rapture

    John 11:26 says... And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

    A true believer is "crucified with Christ" and it is not I who live ( Gal. 2:20). Our experience will differ somewhat in timing from those already asleep ( 1 Thess. 4:16). As Hebrews 9:27 states we are all to "die once and face the judgment". Also it states being "absent from the body is present with the Lord." ( 2 Cor. 5:8). This necessitates the "Bema Seat" judgment to occur at death; or in the case of those still alive and raptured up; at that time. So in a sense; it will be in completing the death process of the sanctification which ultimately brings us eternal life.

    I have often reminded people that martyrdom should it come is the end of a life of sanctification. In some ways that would be much like the Rapture in that there is a sudden end to our time on earth. It is possible someone could be martyred after a rather poor testimony and lukewarmness in this life; but more often scripturally at least it seems the persecutions and sufferings prepare a person for that end and death is simply a final display of Christ's holiness in the life of a saint. These truths are what makes all the claimed dreams about the rapture seem suspect. For one thing the Resurrection of the just is rarely even mentioned even though scripture states it to be the first thing immediately followed it seems by the Rapture of those still alive at the time. Some debate if Revelation 4:1 is indeed a foreshadowing of the Rapture; I would say it is and certainly the vision of Christ in the first chapter and his state of being as though dead will be our own condition when first beholding His glory. There is much ado about deceased relatives and other glories of a heavenly place and whatever is stated scripturally about that is true but of course the majesty of God overshadows that. Whatever the trip up is; the Bema Seat takes front & center
  • Bennymkje - 4 months ago
    Re.11:11-12 "Spirit of life"

    "And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them." Jesus assured "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live"( John 11:25). Three days and an half gives us the assurance that the two witnesses were a sign, that the spirit of life that raised the Son from death worked in their case as well. So vv.9-10 explain in what sense we need interpret, "the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves."(v.9) . They are witnesses even in their death that not a jot or iota from the Law shall be changed.

    " And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand."(v.13)

    At the same hour is a tag to the day of judgment that shall follow. Ten indicates judgment and 7x1000 determines it is decreed from heaven.
  • Bennymkje - 5 months ago
    "In the day of salvation" (2 of 2)

    "He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end."(Ec.3:11)

    No man can find out the mind of God to control time. Only from the work of God one can make sense. This work of God is to believe Jesus Christ. "This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."( John 6:28-29). When Jesus said "I am the resurrection, and the life." ( John 11:25,26) Martha had no understanding to connect this directly to the Son of man but Jesus corrects her and admit it was so."Believest thou this?" In this context what does the budding of Aaron's rod signify? Who shall serve God is it Levi, Israel as a nation or Jesus Christ the Word become flesh? "and, behold, the rod of Aaron for the house of Levi was budded, and brought forth buds, and bloomed blossoms, and yielded almonds."(Nu.17:8,2) The Word of God decreed the day of salvation in his Son.(Ps.2:6-8) This is the Will of God so in the Abstract we have the MOU between God and Man. "and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so." Moses wrote the name of Levi as commanded by God. 'The seed in itself' is indicative it is the word of God is going to work in this test. The work of God according the quote from JohnCh.6 flowering of the rod in a proof of Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today and forever. (He.13:8)The rod flowered according to the divine Will. Time is of no consequence.

    Which came first: chicken or egg? The divine Will is omnipotence. Accordingly the word of God supplied all the information so we are to accept both as one, as the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind. The world of blackholes prove information cannot be lost. neither can the word of God. We deceived ourselves to think atom bombs would stop the WWII We did not even imagine the name North Korea then. It just proves.
  • Momsage - In Reply - 6 months ago
    Please don't misunderstand my comment to the two scriptures you used in this discussion. I won't say if I believe in soul sleep or being in God's presence immediately but I do want to say in these scriptures, I believe, that Jesus was saying in John 11: 25-26 and John 10: 27-28 simply that once someone is saved they have eternal life promised them and will be with Him when He is ready for them to be, whether sleeping first or going right away. Whether He meant it one way or another the promise of eternal life is what matters. God Bless :)
  • Rainwalker - In Reply - 6 months ago
    Hey GiGi, an observation on your reference to John 11:25, Jesus did indeed "explain" that he was the resurrection and the life. But if you notice verse 23 and 24, when he says.. "Thy brother shall rise again", Martha, having listened to the teachings of Jesus on many occasions, says.. v24 Martha said unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection AT THE LAST DAY. just saying.
  • GiGi - In Reply - 6 months ago
    Hello Momsage,

    You are correct, our salvation does not depend on whether we believe in "soul sleep" or "soul death" as opposed to the continuance of the soul as alive after the death of the body. So it is still good to discuss it if we use Scripture as our guide ad rule.

    I am encouraged by the words of our Savior and Lord in John 11:25-26

    "I am the resurrection and the life. He that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live. And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall NEVER die. Believest thou this?"

    Jesus knew that people from that time forth would certainly die physically as to their bodies dying, just as those who lived before him died in the body. But here He says that, though the body dies, we still live on. He is speaking of our soul's continued existence after the body dies. Can't be any clearer than this. He asks a good question: Believest thou this? I believe what He says here and look forward to being alive with Him when my body dies and to see those believers who have died before I die and those who die after I die. We will have a great reunion in the life to come. We have eternal life in Jesus as believers and so this means our soul will not die but will be reunited with our bodies when our bodies are resurrected.

    Also John 10:27-28

    "My sheep hear my voice (in this life), and I know them, and they follow me. And I five unto them eternal life and they shall NEVER perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand."

    So good to know that we have eternal life now, even if we die, we live on, not in our bodies, but in our soul and spirit, until the resurrection when our bodies will join with our soul and spirit once again and then be forever alive.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 7 months ago
    Part 2.

    If we pay close attention to John 11:23-26, the resurrection refers to more than just the body in these 3 verses.

    Infact there is a lot being said here.

    Verse 23, Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. (He/Lazarus will take up residence in his body again.)

    Verse 25, (Resurrection is viewed as a category, not an event.) " Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

    Verse 26, Jesus says "And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

    We know Lazarus died so that doesn't apply to his physical death.

    This speaks of the present eternal condition of the believer once he believe!... (Believest thou this?)

    He has taken part of the "first resurrection" mentioned in Revelation 20-6. this is viewed as a category, not a sequence.

    There are those who are "the living" and have eternal life who will be reunited with their glorified resurrected bodies.

    There are also those who are "the dead" who will be reunited with their corrupted bodies and will be cast into Hell where there will be WEEPING AND NASHING OF TEETH.

    There are no steps of absent of the body, waiting on a resurrection to have eternal life. If you have it, it is eternal.

    The thing is, have you been made conformable unto his death?

    God bless.
  • Oseas - In Reply - 7 months ago
    Carleton

    Who would be the 12 elders from the Old Testament mentioned in your post???, which already are clothed in white raiment; and have on their heads crowns of gold.

    By the way, from the New Testament, you should know that all the saints, but all, including the Apostles, they all still are waiting their resurrection of this last Day( John 11:24), i.e. the SEVENTH and last Day or the current SEVENTH and last millennium.

    As far as I know at this time, of all the New Testament saints there is none in heaven who was clothed in white raiment; and have on their heads crowns of gold. You should restudy your interpretation.
  • Ronald Whittemore - In Reply - 7 months ago
    Hi GiGi,

    Of course, I do not mind, you have always treated me with respect and care.

    What John 11:25-26 means to me. Jesus is the resurrection, His perfect life when He died on the cross and was buried in a tomb death could not hold Him. To me, it is the gospel, the simplicity of Jesus Christ, the message of salvation, and our hope in eternal life. Even if we die, we who believe in Jesus Christ will live as we see in John 5:29 the resurrection of life.

    We sleep in death, but we have the promise of eternal life, we will never die. Those of the wicked and lost will face the second death, the permanent death of no return. As Jesus asked Martha do you believe this, regardless of what we face and the struggles and doubts we have in this world we go through in this fleshly body, all of our hope and trust must be in Jesus, who is the truth, the light, and what He said will come to be.

    God bless,

    RLW
  • GiGi - In Reply - 7 months ago
    Hi Ronald, I hope you don't mind my input here.

    How do you understand John 11:25-26?

    "Jesus said unto her, "I am the Resurrection, and the light: he who believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live.

    And whoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"
  • GiGi - In Reply - 7 months ago
    Hello Jema,

    I hope your day has gone well. It is morning here in Washington state.

    When I read your post to Chris, I immediately though of Matthew 22:23 where Jesus said, "I am the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."

    To me, Jesus is saying that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are alive.

    Also, refer to 1 Samuel, 2:6 in the song Hannah sang, "The Lord killeth, and maketh alive; he bringeth down to the grave, and bringeth up."

    Notice the order, first death, then made alive. Of course this happens fully in the resurrection, but in considering what Jesus said that He who believes in me will never die. ( john 11:26)

    And, one of my favorite verses: Romans 8:37-39

    "Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him that loved us.

    For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

    This clearly says that death cannot separate us from God.

    And Jesus said to His disciples, "Behold, I AM with you always, even to the end of the world." Matthew 28:20

    And Paul encourages believers by reminding them that God said, "I will never leave You nor forsake you." Hebrews 13:5, Josh. 1:5

    So, to me, always and never mean that we will always be alive, whether in this life now or after we die.

    Therefore, I believe that when we die, our body dies, but we are still alive with God. Our bodies will be rejoined to our soul and spirit when we are resurrected and then we will be made complete (whole, perfected) for eternity.
  • GiGi - 8 months ago
    Hello Friends, today I wish to keep the conflict in Israel/Gaza in my prayers especially ass it seems that things will escalate more over the next week. I pray that civilians in each area get to safety.

    To continue in my study on Who God truly is I move on to "L" and meditate on God as being LIFE.

    God revealed Himself to Moses in Exodus 3:14 as "I AM WHO I AM" which speaks to His self-existence. He does not derive His existence from any other, nor did He ever begin to exist at any time, nor will He ever not exit. This is impossible for Him.

    When He calls Himself "I AM, it is perhaps one of the profoundest statement we can know. HE IS!

    He is clearly stating that He exists, o if, and, or buts about it. He has always existed, and will exist forever.

    John 1:4 says that Life is in God. He is the source of all life. Because He is the Life. john 11:25 Jesus calls Himself the Resurrection and the Life. John 5:26 Jesus says that He has Life within Himself just as the Father has life within Himself. Thus saying that He is God , just as the Father is God. John 6:63 Jesus says that the Spirit gives life, affirming that the Spirit is God. And with these statements Jesus is saying that within the Godhead there are three who together gives life since they are Life itself. Nothing comes into existence without being created by God and it is He who give any creature life. In John 6:63.



    God made us. Each person of the Godhead is involved in giving us life because they are Life itself, as Jesus says in John 14:6 when He says that He is the way, the truth, and the life.

    Romans 5:10 speaks of how we are saved through the life of Christ. By the power of God's everlasting life, Jesus' body was resurrected from the dead and lives forever. This is how we receive salvation. Because He lives, we will live. And since all people ever created receive their natural life from God, those who are chosen by God to be saved, receive their spiritual life from God as well. see part 2
  • Lee the Follower - In Reply - 8 months ago
    Thank you, this makes sense to a lot of the scriptures;

    John 3:15 "That whosoever BELIEVETH in him should not perish, but have eternal life."

    John 6:47 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that BELIEVETH on me hath everlasting life."

    John 11:25 "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that BELIEVETH in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:"

    Romans 1:16 "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that BELIEVETH; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."

    Thank you again for your time and patience to respond to a question that seems obvious to the experienced Christians. I am nothing but a mere child in the faith and so my understanding is somewhat limited and have a little catching up to do. Thanks and may God bless you and peace to you in Jesus name
  • Bennymkje - 8 months ago
    Ge.5 "The Four" (1 of 2)

    Enoch

    He walked with God, meaning in the presence of God, so he was aware of the will of God and its fulfillment. The significance of the name of his son attests to it. It is the power of the Word and it allowed him to prophecy of the end times." Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: "See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones."(Jude v.14-NIV)" The number Seven is indicative of his life span was in accordance with the word of God. Sixty-five years before Methuselah. Three hundred years with God (3x100) points his translation without seeing death was fulfillment of the word, "And whoever lives by believing in me will never die."( John 11:26). We are setting his life in context of the word forever settled in heavens.(Ps.119:89)

    Methusaleh

    The Spirit places him as a double for the Son, being the seventh in descent from Seth who stepped in the breach of Abel who is the first martyr for being righteous. ( 1 John 3:12) Seven as command number indicates perfection of the divine Will. He is the only son in an age when a large family was the norm, foreshadowing 'the only begotten Son' who would be sent to the world. The holy family of Seth survives judgement of the old world through his grandson Noah. His personal name, meaning man of the dart, points to the river of time that Salvation Plan of God connects from beginning of the age to its ending

    Lamech

    The Spirit includes two of the same name in order to present representations of godless descendants of Cain and of the holy family beginning from Seth. Lamech the fifth in descent from Cain was boastful and who feared neither God nor man. "If Cain is avenged seven times then Lamech, seventy-seven times.' (Ge.4:27). Famous last words. On the other hand Lamech seventh in descent from Seth is a locus classic as to the 'in the image of man'. Thus Methusaleh is set as the double for the Son. The remaining sons and daughters are left out.
  • Oseas - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Hellow Jimbob

    Greetings in Christ JESUS

    Regardings the last Day, John 11:21-26

    21 Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord,if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.

    22 But I know,that even now,whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee.

    23 Jesus saith unto her,Thy brother shall rise again.

    24 Martha saith unto him,I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last Day.

    25 Jesus said unto her,I am the resurrection,and the life: he that believeth in me,though he were dead,yet shall he live:

    26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.Believest thou this?

    The LAST DAY is the seventh Day,or seventh and last millennium. 2Peter 3:8-But,beloved,be not ignorant of this one thing that one Day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one Day

    By the way, JESUS came in the fourth Day or around 4.000 years after Adam. Jn 5:17-My Father worketh hitherto,and I work

    In fact,according to the Biblical Chronology,we are living in the beginning of the first century of the the seventh and last millennium,or seventh and last Day

    Mary,sister of Lazarus,thought her brother would resurrect only in this current millennium

    By the way,according to the Daniel 12:1-3,

    1At that time(at this current time)shall Michael stand up,the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people:and there shall be a time of trouble,such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time:and at that time thy people shall be delivered,every one that shall be found written in the book

    2And many of them that sleep in the DUST of the earth shall awake,some to everlasting life,and some to shame and everlasting contempt

    3And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament;and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever

    1 Thes.4:16-the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout,with the voice of the archangel,and with the trump of God and the dead in Christ shall rise first
  • Richard H Priday - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Conclusions (for now) on OSAS

    I have always stated that in the end; God has a certain number of people that enter hell; and a set number in heaven and since God is fair and an impartial judge ( Romans 2:11) that no one will be able to prove Him wrong; or even want to question the final verdict. The wicked will be speechless and the righteous rejoice forever. This settles any issues with OSAS or Predestination for that matter; and even free will. There are those who hate the light and love darkness ( John 3:19-21).

    There are as I mentioned before HUNDREDS of verses that on the surface may appear to render the OSAS concept void; but when we consider the context; the concluding meanings of the text and other factors more often than not it appears to support this idea. Again the scriptures that indate there is no longer any condemnation ( Romans 8:1) for believers; we have "passed from death to life ( John 5:24); will never die ( John 11:25) and a plethora of other supporting texts shows eternal security for a TRUE believer in Christ.

    My emphasis was on the FRUIT of one's life rather than just what is verbalized. One's heart determines their course of action; the righteous is contrasted with the wicked shown in passages such as Mark 7:20-23. Christ for the wicked is a means to an end; whether it be financial security (such as for those who buy into the prosperity gospel or are out to borrow money and fleece those who are called to follow passages such as Luke 6:30.) Christ for the righteous on the other hand is God in the flesh and we are compelled through the Spirit and a new heart to serve with love and obedience (See John 14:15 and read rest of the chapter for further context). Again; loving our enemies and dying for them isn't something natural man will do (see Romans 5:7-9). If we understand the indebtedness we have to Christ and not just a band aid for our sin behavior but a death sentence to our SIN NATURE through the new life in Christ we are saved.
  • Chris - In Reply - 10 months ago
    Hi Jema. Just a couple of points to note from your understanding of those passages you quoted. You believe that Simon the Leper ( Matthew 26:6) might be the same person, now named Lazarus (in John 11:1-6). As I understand it, the account of the sickness, death & resurrection of Lazarus (brother of Mary & Martha) took place some time before the account of Simon the Leper. Jesus was on His second journey (after first leaving Jerusalem (in Winter): John 10:22, then onto Jordan: John 10:40) when news came to Him of Lazarus' sickness ( John 11:3). But Jesus continued to stay at Jordan ( John 11:6) & then went to Bethany to deceased Lazarus.

    Now the account of Simon the Leper, also in Bethany, occurred very near to the Passover Feast ( Matthew 26:2). And we know this to be so, because after the woman's anointing of Jesus in Simon the Leper's home, Jesus' disciples were annoyed at the waste of this ointment, & Judas Iscariot then left them to put into effect his wicked act. And of course, Jesus then celebrates the Passover with His disciples at the appointed time. So the Lazarus (in John 11) & Simon the Leper (in Matthew 26) can't be the same person and of course it would have saddened Lazarus (& others) tremendously that he who died because of some sickness & was raised by Jesus, yet wasn't healed of his leprosy.

    As well, the account of the rich man & (the other) Lazarus ( Luke 16:19-31) is understood to have happened after the Lazarus (of John 11) was raised to life, not before. A synopsis of the Gospels shows that after Jesus began His journey towards Bethany, He also ministered along the way ( Luke 13:22 to Luke 17:1-10). After this, Jesus arrives in Bethany to see the lifeless body of his friend.
  • GiGi - In Reply - 10 months ago
    Hello Ronald,

    Thanks for your reply and I appreciate the time you took to think about my post.

    I do not think we will come to agreement on this topic, so I will certainly consider what you have posed here.

    As to Hebrews 12:1, this verse about the cloud of witnesses is part of what the author was speaking about the people who had faith in chapter 11. These people were all dead, but the author says that these are who compose this cloud of witnesses, from my understanding.

    I have never read anywhere in Scripture that states that people cease to exist when they die, as Jema seems to say. If there is a verse, I would love to take it under consideration.



    That it is unto each man to die, (physical death) and then comes judgment (then seems to indicate immediately following death.

    Those who believe in Jesus will live, even though they die. John 11:25-26).

    When one dies, their body (which is made of various natural elements) will decompose back into dust).

    One's soul will be with Jesus with consciousness and interaction with God ( Rev. 6:9; 20:4)

    We will not be spirits, but souls. Angels are spiritual beings, we are human beings God made to exist with a spirit, soul, and body.

    The redemption of our bodies will occur at the Resurrection at Jesus' second coming to be united to our soul, and spirit to become fully redeemed.

    The body we had in this life is the body that will be resurrected, just as Jesus was resurrected in the same body he died in.

    Our physical bodies, souls, and spirits will be reunited in this resurrection.

    Our whole self, body, soul, and spirit will be glorified, transformed after our bodies are resurrected.

    We will live forever with God. He will make His throne and dwelling among those who believed in the Son.

    Those who did not believe in the Son will also be resurrected in the same bodies they lived in before death. Their body will be reunited with their souls and be immortal.
  • Ronald Whittemore - In Reply - 10 months ago
    Hi GiGi, hope you or Jema don't mind, Jema's and my understanding are similar. Like you said not trying to convince you, just things to look at and study.

    Death is sleep, we still exist we just no longer have any consciousness or knowledge of time or happenings. I take it is 1 Peter 3:18-20 as your question on who Jesus preached to in Hades between His death and resurrection.

    There are several interpretations of the meaning of these verses. some depend on the belief in the immortal soul and a place where souls go. First, this chapter, or these verses, do not say when Jesus did this. If Scripture does not support when Jesus did this can we say Jesus preached to these spirits between His death and resurrection?

    Second, I do not know any Scriptures that people are called spirits. We have a spirit that gives us our breath, drive, energy, and communication with God through His Spirit, but when we die that stops and it goes back to God, Ecclesiastes 12:7. We are mortal beings and we are not called spirits, to me that would open the door to necromancy, that is just me. I can give my understanding of these verses if you want.

    Jesus's transformation is a vision, Matt. 17:9, Jesus had not been crucified and resurrected, Jesus is the first fruit of those who slept the firstborn of death. Moses could not be resurrected before Jesus; Jesus was there but Moses and Elijah were like the things John was shown in Revelation. It was done to strengthen their faith for God said out of the cloud, this is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

    Heb. 12:1 I am sorry I do not see these witnesses in heaven, the word cloud could be a multitude or a great company who through diversity have obtained a good report through faith. All we know of God's former work should inspire us to run the race set before us. John 11:26 I understand eternally die because it is appointed unto men once to die, Heb. 9:27.

    Forgive me if I have overstepped, God bless,

    RLW
  • Oseas - 10 months ago
    THE WONDERFUL AND GLORIOUS DAY OF RESURRECTION- JOHN 11:24-,THE SEVENTH AND LAST DAY OR SEVENTH AND LAST MILLENNIUM

    Revelation 1:8- I am Alpha and Omega,the beginning and the ending,saith the Lord,which is, and which was,and which is to come,the Almighty.

    Matthew 28:18- And JESUS came and spake saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

    Luke 20:35-37 -> 35 They which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world(the next world), and the resurrection from the dead,neither marry,nor are given in marriage:

    36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

    38 For GOD is not a GOD of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

    Phil.3:20-21 -> 20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

    21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

    1Cor.15:51-54 and 24-26 -->51 Behold, I shew you a MYSTERY; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

    52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

    53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

    54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

    24 Then cometh the end,when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God,even the Father;when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power(This prophecy will fulfill LITERALLY from now on)

    25 For He must reign,till he hath put all enemies under His feet.

    26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

    Get ready for the last week, week 70th Daniel 9:27

    continues below
  • Oseas - 10 months ago
    THE WONDERFUL AND GLORIOUS DAY OF RESURRECTION , THE SEVENTH AND LAST DAY - JOHN 11:24 - OR SEVENTH AND LAST MILLENNIUM - THE MILLENNIUM EXCLUSIVELLY OF CHRIST

    continuation from above:

    Now, on this seventh and last Day or seventh and last millennium, the world that was promised it would be to come- Luke 20:35-36-the third heaven, the same will be established and will last 1000 years, the first and second heavens(the OT and NT) will be burned up with everlasting fire, and those which believed not in the Word of GOD for salvation will perish for ever.

    By the way, remember 1Corinthians 3:12-15 (quoted below) - , combined with 2Peter 3:7-13. Take a look and understand the prophetical voice, otherwise, you might lose your soul. There is not and will not be any kind of sacrifice for salvation of souls from now on, after Noah, and Moses, the last one was that of JESUS.

    12 If any man built upon the foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

    13 Every man's work shall be made MANIFEST: for -in this Day- it shall (be)declare(d) it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

    14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

    15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as BY FIRE. (I suppose you don't know this kind of fire- Isaiah 33:10-14)

    Get ready

    Revelation 21:8 - 8 But the fearful(the COWARDS), and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
  • GiGi - In Reply - 10 months ago
    Jema,

    You have presented a reasonable view on this topic, and in many ways, I think it is plausible. However, I am wondering if our body and soul dies and we no longer exist, then who did Jesus preach to in Hades between His death and resurrection? Also, how could Moses and Elijah appear with Jesus in the transfiguration? If Jesus was actually there (since the disciples walked up the mountain with Him and the text say that Jesus' appearance was changed), then it seems that Moses and Elijah were actually there with Jesus as the disciples saw them and heard them speaking with Jesus.

    These two occurrences make me think that our body dies and returns to dust, as that is what is said in Gen. 2:7 and 3:19, but it does not say anything about our soul ceasing to exist. Jesus said that we are to fear the One (God Almighty_ who can destroy both body and soul ( Matt. 10:28) which is the second death of unbelievers, but not believers. In this verse Jesus is speaking of two parts of our being, body is one, and the soul is the other, so it seems that the body can physically die, but not a regenerated soul.

    Another Scripture that makes me think that the soul lives on in the presence of Jesus after death is in Hebrews 12:1 that there is a great cloud of witnesses in heaven who have gone before us in faith.

    And lastly, Jesus said that believers have eternal life and will never die. ( John 11:26) Even though our body dies, our soul lives on because He is the resurrection and the life and those who believe in Him have life even though their body dies, our soul lives in Christ.

    To me, the words of our Lord carry so much weight in regards to what we are to believe. He is the Truth and the Life and what He says will be will be.

    But I truly understand your point of view, but it seems that Jesus differs from you and others here and in your church in regards to this topic.

    I am not trying to be argumentative here, Jema. Just saying that what I know from Scripture differs from you
  • Scotty McScottish - In Reply - 11 months ago
    Isn't it John 11:35? "Jesus wept."
  • Chris - In Reply - 11 months ago
    Hi Rhonda. I believe that John 11:35 is the verse.


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