Discuss Jude 1

  • Oseas - In Reply - 3 weeks ago
    Greetings in Christ JESUS, Ecalarese

    Thank you for your significative reply.

    You know that "no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of GOD spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit".2Pe.1:20-21.

    The author to the Hebrews wrote: Hebrews 1:1-3

    1 GOD, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

    2 Hath in these last days(last two GODs' Days or last around 2000 years) spoken unto us by His Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds;

    3 Who being the brightness of His glory, and the EXPRESS IMAGE of GOD's Person( John 10:30 combined with John 5:17), and upholding all things by the Word of His power( Matthew 28:18), when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:


    And Paul Apostle wrote : 2Timothy 3:16-17

    16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of GOD, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

    17 That the man of GOD may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.


    To the only wise GOD our Saviour, be Glory and Majesty, Dominion and Power, both now and ever. Amen.

    Jude 1:25
  • Oseas - 1 month ago
    Signs of JESUS's return

    Luke 17:26-27

    As it was in days of Noah,so it will be in the days of the Son of man.They ate,drank,married,gave in marriage,until the day Noah entered the ark,the flood came and destroyed them all.So"This was the"modus vivendi" in Noahs'days.

    We would say it was the same 'modus vivendi' of society in recent times,say around 1950-1985,it was similar to society in the days of Noah.It was common to eat and drink with development of large malls around the world at that time,it was common the celebration of weddings,existence of strong family ties,but as time went by,it began to deteriorate morally as in the time of Noah,when the sons of GOD mixed their seed with seed of the evil ones,giving rise to a corrupt and evil society- Genesis 6:2-3, due to the proliferation of adulterers and adulteresses.And the punishment came,yes,the flood came and only 8 people were saved by the Ark.

    Comparing the society of Noah's days with a posterior society of Sodom and Gomorrah,at the time of Lot,let's see the differences,according Scriptures:

    Luke 17:28-30 reveal:

    28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

    29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

    30 Even thus shall it be in the day (in the current time) when the Son of man is revealed.

    society of Noah's day..........................society of Sodom/Gomorrah

    they ate and drank ..............................they ate and drank

    they married and gave in marriage ....they bought and sold,they planted and built

    Men of Sodom were wicked,immoral exceedingly,and sinners before the Lord- Genesis 13:13.There was no marriage,society was polluted of prostitutes,sodomites/ effeminate(gays),society was infested of prostitution and great sinners. The same occurs today. Lot was vexed with filthy conversations seeing and hearing their unlawful deeds- 2Peter 2:7-8 & Jude 1:6-7.
  • Richard H Priday - 1 month ago
    Before I begin; I want to say that I enjoy the fellowship here; as well as writing postings. If there was any time that I wanted to make an impact it is now on this subject. Other than the attributes of God; at least from my perspective and experience this is needed the most. Many go to either extreme (NOT unique to this subject). People either will exaggerate Satan and allow fear of him to paralyze them or will underestimate the threat. It is; and I hope everyone here agrees with this BEYOND our strength to fight the enemy of our souls; we only have Christ to help us; as evidence of Michael the Archangel appealing to the Lord in the case of the dispute over Moses' Body ( Jude 1:9). Since he WILL kick Satan out of heaven at some point; this is evidence of respecting God; although it could show that the combined forces of angels of God are needed to kick out Satan and his minions.

    It also avoids presumptuous action as well as acting out before the proper time and without the direct command of God which involves a pride of sorts that Lucifer himself was brought to his downfall. In any case; what causes fear is either our own sin which God allows the enemy to torment us with and accuse us; or an unhealthy obsession with the media representation or occult practices rather than avoiding every appearance of evil. Knowing that Satan is the god of this world and offered all the Kingdoms to Christ and that everyone's name that is NOT in the book of life worships his masterpiece the Antichrist Beast we do well to heed to the warnings not to trivialize the enemy we face but to have an Ephesians 6 mindset.

    Satan's "machinations"

    Part One.-Self

    John 12:25 states that if we love this life we will lose it and if we hate it we gain eternal life. Proverbs 16:18 says that pride comes before a fall. Jesus gave his life as a ransom for many ( Mark 10:45) and the verse begins talking about Him serving others than being served. I will discuss Matthew 16:23 next post.
  • GiGi - 2 months ago
    "S" God is SAVIOR

    God alone is the Savior of men.

    Is. 19:20 says that God will send a savior and defender. ad God identifies the Savior as the Holy One of Israel ( a name of God) in Is. 43:3. In 43:11 God says that apart from Him there is NO Savior. Also Hos. 13:4

    God calls Himself Savior in Is. 45:21; 49:26; 60:16. Jesus is called the Savior of the world John 4:42; Acts 5:31; 13:23, 1 Tim. 4:10,

    the Father sent the Son to as Savior ( 1 Jn. 4:14)

    and Jude 1:25 says that Jesus our only God and Savior and He should be glorified and honored the SAME as the Father who is God ( Jn. 5:23) thus claiming equality with the Father. (also see Jn. 5:18; Jn. 10: 30-38; 8:58)

    So, in light of these truths of Scripture, It is fact that God alone is our Savior, and the Father sent His Divine Son into the world to save sinners.

    Hallelujah! Because every human that has ever lived needs to be saved from their sins, and Jesus, God the Son, is this Savior, and no mere man can save anyone.
  • Richard H Priday - 4 months ago
    Satan and God's master plan

    Much can be said about today's music and entertainment industry as to how they mock God. In all of this we can tend to ignore the passage in Jude 1:9 where slander against Satan himself by Michael the Archangel was not proclaimed; there was an appeal to the Lord to rebuke him. If that is the case for an Archangel surely it should be the case for us. Yet many wish to mock Satan as well to their own detriment.

    This statement is by no means; of course to suggest that we should worship the Devil. We simply cannot fight against an enemy who is vastly superior to us any other way; and the verse Luke 14:31 demonstrates this principle fighting against an army of superior manpower. This is why deliverance ministers that implore a demon to "go to hell" are clearly unscriptural (or else if true by now there wouldn't be any left to possess and oppress men). Satan is not ruling in hell; or in hell currently as that is the place where he will suffer eternally himself. God has; however given him a sort of usurper role at present where he is given an army of principalities and powers to rule over regions of the earth as many verses in Daniel indicate. Demons are also under his rule; likely disembodied spirits from the offspring of Nephilim it would seem. Jesus and the prophets never went after these principalities ruling over nations; but cast out devils living inside individuals. Again Daniel shows how in Daniel 10:13 Micheal fought against a principality for 21 days before his prayers could be answered. We don't often think of that being an issue with prayers being answered but should consider such things.

    From the outset let me say that no amount of dissertation can help answer all of the questions we as mere mortals can ask regarding the state of suffering we must endure in a fallen world or fully comprehend the reasons God allowed it in His sovereignty and Master plan. The sufferings of Christ are the prime example.
  • Tunney on Jude 1 - 4 months ago

    2 Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.

    3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

    GOD bless all on this forum. Happy New Year! The LORD to shine HIS face on all and to gloriously bless all who love and wait for HIS coming.

    January 1, 2024.
  • Oseas - 5 months ago

    Matthew 24

    4Take heed that no man deceive you.

    6And ye will hear of wars and rumours of wars(Ukraine,Israel, Venezuela):see that ye be not troubled:for all these things must come to pass,but the END is not yet.

    10And then shall MANY be offended, and shall BETRAY one another, and shall HATE one another.

    12And because INIQUITY shall abound, the love of MANY shall wax cold.

    22And except those days should be SHORTENED, there should no flesh be saved:but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.


    23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.


    GOD shall send them strong DELUSION, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the Truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness (2The.2:11-12.


    1Ti. 4:1-2

    1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils(doctrines of DEMONS- 2Corinthians 11:13-15);

    2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;


    Re.12:3-4- Behold a great red Dragon, having 7 heads and 10 horns, and 7 crowns upon his heads. And his TAIL DRAGGED after him (TAIL? Isaiah 9:15-16&14 combined with 2Corinthians 11:13-15.Take a look) the third part of the stars of heaven...(stars?Look Jude 1:13 and you will know who the stars are).


    Abraham's descendants had to pass through the Red Sea,the Lord's Church has to pass through the Red Dragon.Get ready.


    13And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

    14For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles,which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world,to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

    15 Behold,I come as a thief.

    Get ready
  • Adam - 5 months ago
    In reading I am reminded of the contrast between Paul's words and words some Christians say.

    Word of God through Paul: "Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain." 1 Corinthians 9:24 KJV

    Man's doctrine: "Don't run, because you already have the prize. It's bad to put effort into following God, because my pastor says that's legalism and obeying God's law is bad and pleasing God is bad."

    James 2:14-26 "...faith, if it hath not works, is dead..."

    Man's doctrine: "nah, ignore that verse, cause I'm told all good works are 'bad'. Bad works are ok though since you're already forgiven."

    Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

    Man's doctrine: "just ignore this verse, but lets cherry pick something else and focus on that instead."

    Matthew 24:13 "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."

    Man's doctrine: "Nope, you're already saved right now, not later. So you don't have to endure anything or do anything whatsoever. Just do whatever feels good then rationalize it by saying that's the spirit doing it, not your sinful flesh."

    Hebrews 10:36 "For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise."

    Man's doctrine: "Nah, ignore that verse too. You already have the promise and prize. You don't need to do anything."

    "But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:" Romans 2:10 KJV

    Man's doctrine: "No, just ignore. Good is bad, but bad is fine, because salvation."

    Jude 1:4 "For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ."

    Man's doctrine: "Nope"

    Are both genuinely following Jesus?
  • S Spencer - 6 months ago
    Pt 1

    There are terms in the Bible such as twice dead and Second death. " Jude 1:12, Revelation 2:11, Revelation 20:14 and Revelation 21:8.

    Paul says in Romans 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

    Which death did he die? The 1st or the 2nd?

    An unbeliever is ALREADY dead! Yet he is still continuous.

    ( 1 Timothy 5:6.) This is a very common NT idiom. The word (noun) for "dead" is "nekros" and is used of physical death (obviously) but also spiritual death to describe an unsaved person who is physically alive but spiritually dead. Here are some examples:

    Matt 8:22 - But Jesus told him, "Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead."

    Eph 2:1 - As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,

    Eph 2:5 - made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved.

    Eph 5:14 - This is why it is said: "Wake up, sleeper, rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you.

    Col 2:13 - When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins.

    Eternal Salvation is life! It is separation from this Body/Tabernacle of death.

    In Romans 6:3 we see the sacrificial Lamb at work.

    In Romans 6:4-5 we see the NEW BIRTH and the first fruit of the Resurrection. This is the 1st Resurrection.

    You are either dead right now or you have life right now!

    Those who have life has already died once and has been born again, never to die again.

    "Eternal life speaks of "spiritual life and death".

    That's the only death a believer has. "He's already been born again"

    Those who are dead is already spiritual dead and their bodies will soon die, and they will remain spiritual dead throughout eternity.

    The bible doesn't say anything about being unconscious after the body dies. It has lots of scripture describing conscious.

    If the grave is Hell, the Bible never says anything about the saved going there.

    See Pt 2
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 6 months ago
    Brother Carleton.

    Part 2.

    Here's is your response to the original post.

    "Hello brother Spencer, Good evening! Thinking of doctrine, the Church practice of

    giving and taking reproof by love maybe is part of what you are thinking? Church discipline and restoration?

    God bless the walk.

    Brother Carleton, That I absolutely agree with! However, that is not in the context of this message.

    This message is more in line with Jude 1:3-4 with the focus on what is mentioned in verse 4 "For there are certain men crept in unawares,"

    This has the thought of some has come into the fold sort of like through a back door.

    Jude 1:10-15. He describes them. They are not Brothern. They are not Sheep.

    As for "A Holy kiss.

    Does the bible say greet "them" with a Holy kiss? No, I don't think so.

    Romans 10:8-10 says the words is ni thy mouth.

    These words is what we can confess to others if asked by what means are you saved.

    However, what about the guy whom from his heart "by his mouth" speaks against truth?

    We don't judge his present spiritual condition; he's done it ALREADY by refusing to believe and enter in the straight and narrow gate. See Matthew 7:13-15. and John 3:18.

    What do these verses concerning a Holy kiss have in common? This Holy kiss is for the Brothern.

    1 Corinthians 16:20.

    2 Corinthians 13:11-12.

    1 Thessalonians 5:26.

    Romans 16:16.

    The Holy kiss wasn't only meant to express love for the Brothern.

    The Holy kiss is meant to express acceptance especially at a time when Gentiles was coming into the fold.

    It certainly wasn't for non-believers.

    Look at 2 John1:10. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed.

    Also see Romans 16:17-18.

    Does open rebuke harm a brother?

    Open rebuke is better than secret love.

    Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful. Proverbs 27:5-6.

    See Part 3
  • Ronald Whittemore - In Reply - 6 months ago
    Hi Jesse,

    Part 1

    If I may add a few points to this subject, I know we have different understandings on this and I hope you will not be offended, these are questions I have asked myself. What does Scripture support, our soul is an immortal entity that consciously lives on after the death of the body or does it sleep in the grave until the resurrection? Is the definition of death a separation of the soul from the body or is it the end of life, a permanent cessation, and the grave is our home until we are resurrected?

    John 3:15-16 Without the belief in Jesus we will perish the Greek word apollumi means destroy utterly, to put out of the way entirely, abolish as in Psalms 37:10 Psalms 92:7 Proverbs 10:28-29 Job 20:4-7 Malachi 4:1-3 2 Peter 2:12.

    Matthew 10:28 we are to fear the one who can destroy the body and the soul in hell, the Greek word for destroy is apollumi same as perish, a permanent/absolute destruction. Hell, the Greek word is geenna the fire and smoke that goes up and burns forever that never goes out is a reference to the lake of fire. Job 17:13 the Hebrew word sheol is the same word translated as hell. Job 17:16 the word pit is the same Hebrew word.

    Our first death is sleep, Psalms 13:3 Daniel 12:2 Acts 13:36 1 Cor. 15:51. If all souls are immortal which means they have eternal life, the question must be asked, what is the gift of eternal life we see in John 3:15 John 6:54 Romans 6:23 Titus 1:2 1 John 2:25 Jude 1:21? If our soul is immortal, why do we have to put immortality on as said in 1 Corinthians 15:51-58?

    See part 2
  • Ronald Whittemore - In Reply - 6 months ago

    Part 2

    My understanding is everyone will face judgment there is the first resurrection in Rev. 20 and the white throne judgment of all who have lived excluding those in the first resurrection who have already received their glorified bodies and judged, Rev. 20:4 and have been reigning with Jesus for a thousand years.

    The second resurrection and judgment is called the second death, in this judgment, all who are not found in the Book of Life are cast into the lake of fire and they will perish, this punishment based on their works is everlasting to be no more, not an eternal conscious torment. We are given an example in Jude 1:7 of how the wicked will perish, the same way Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed in the eternal fire for eternity never to be again.

    Just a little of how I understand it, I know you know the Greek words' meaning better than I do, thank you.

    God bless,

  • S Spencer - In Reply - 6 months ago
    Hi Carleton.

    Thanks, but this has something to do with "scripture" within the Church and more in line with Jude 1:3-4.

    Jude was expressing his love and concern for the Church.

    Life in Christ is not a flesh given effort to copy Christ.

    It's a Spirit controlled life given by Christ barring fruit.

    All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

    Here's one of those scriptures in context- John 10:12

    "But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep."

    The Shepherd laid down his life for the sheep!!

    We as ambassadors and as sheep can atleast scream wolf.

    Here's another.

    Mathew 7:13-16.

    Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

    Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

    Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

    Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

    Do we just present scriptures of the Love of Christ and yet not present the scriptures that warns the ones we Love?

    God bless.
  • GiGi - In Reply - 6 months ago
    Good Evening, I am getting back to posting on God's MAJESTY

    Pt. 2

    God is exalted far above all else by nature, not because we place him in this place of esteem.

    Gen. 14:22 attests that He is God Most High, as how Abraham, Isaac and Jacob knew him.

    Ps. 113:5 states that God is the One who is enthroned on high. No one put Him there by appointment. He did not ascend to this position. He has always occupied this place of highest sovereignty. Jesus, in His humiliation of becoming a man, is the only one who ascended to the highest place of God. Ph. 2:9

    He ascended back to the glory He always had with the Father prior to His incarnation. John 17:5

    There is nothing and no one greater than He and this is eternally so.

    Ps. 111:3 says that Glorious and majestic are God's deeds.

    Ps. 145: tells of the glorious splendor of His majesty.

    The Scriptures say that He is majestic in:

    power ( Ex. 15:6

    holiness ( Ex. 15:11)

    voice ( Job 37:4)

    deeds (111:3)

    beauty (Ez. 31:7)

    splendor ( 1Chr. 29:11)

    authority ( Jude 1:25)

    victory ( Ps. 45:4)

    in raiment (93:1)

    His majesty in incomparable (Ez. 31:3)

    2 Thes. 2:8 says that the enemies of God will be destroyed by the splendor of His coming.

    Neh. 9:5 says that He is exalted above all that could be praised.

    Ps. 92:10 says that God is exalted forever.

    Ps. 113:4 says God is exalted above the nations. Nothing rises above Him.

    Ps. 138:2 says God is exalted above ALL things.

    And who can pass up Isaiah's vision of the Lord upon His throne High and exalted! Is. 6:1 Read the way He is described here. Awesome!

    Micah 6:6 tells us to bow down before the exalted God.

    Let us have a high view of God, esteeming Him to be the best of all, pre-eminent in all things, the height of perfection, the One no one can supplant, the absolute sublimity of anything worthy and holy. His majesty surpasses all that any being can imagine or think. Even the angels do not know the full extent of His majesty, but cry Holy, holy.
  • S Spencer - 6 months ago
    There is no one claiming to have the Spirit of Christ that would stand in the way of the Gospel message by promoting a message that it is ok to continue in sin.

    And there is no one claiming to have the Spirit of Christ that would support such a person.

    This is what happens when the True Gospel begins to offend some because of persecution.

    Or we get so caught up in self glory we compromise the truth for the praise of man.

    Christians, You are not Brothers with everyone that says Lord Lord.

    Life in Christ is not a script you play,

    It's a life you live by the power of the Holyspirit.

    Keep in mind of Jude 1:3-4.

    "Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

    For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Brothers, be of great courage.

    God bless.
  • Ronald Whittemore - In Reply - 7 months ago
    Hi Alex Palace,

    Is Jesus Michael the archangel? I have heard this from the Jehovah's Witnesses. Some say the angel of the LORD were manifestations of Jesus before His incarnation, but Jesus is not an angel.

    Michael is the only angel specifically called an archangel, Jude 1:9. Michael is the chief prince who stands up for Israel, Daniel 10:13,21 Daniel 12:1. We see that Michael and his angels battle the dragon/Satan and his angels and cast them down to earth out of heaven with no place found for them anymore in heaven for them, Revelation 12:7-8.

    We see in 1 Thessalonians 4:15 that when Jesus returns it will be announced by a shout, by the voice of the archangel, I understand that as Michael.

    Jesus is the Son of God, our Lord who gave his life and shed His blood for us. Jesus's name is above all, Ephesians 1:21 including Michael. At the burning bush, it was the angel of the LORD, it does not say what angel it was.

    Heb. 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

    My understanding Jesus is not any kind of angel, Michael was probably the angel of the LORD we see in the OT because Michael is the chief prince of Israel and Michael will announce Jesus's second coming.

    God bless,

  • Oseas - 7 months ago
    The verses below are the most cited.

    Luke 17:26-27

    26And as it was in the days of Noah,so it will be in the days of the Son of man.

    27They ate,drank,married,gave in marriage,until the day Noah entered the ark,the flood came and destroyed them all.

    Luke 17:28-30

    28Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot;they did eat,they drank, they bought,they sold,they planted,they builded;

    29But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven,and destroyed them all.

    30Thus shall it be in this day of revelation of Son of man.

    society of Noah's day ......................... society of Sodom

    they ate and drank .......................... they ate and drank

    they married and gave in marriage ....... they bought and sold

    ................ -x-x-x- ......................... they planted and built

    The prophecy of Noah's days has already literally fulfilled around years 1950 to 1990,in this period of time there were celebration of weddings similar to society in the days of Noah.The society of Noah's day had let's say a natural"modus vivendi",or a normal way of life, there were celebration of weddings.From 1950 to 1990,It was common to eat and drink due to the development of large malls at that time,it was common celebration of weddings,and existence of strong family ties,as in the days of Noah.

    The differences are great between Noah's society,and days of Sodom.See,the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the Lord exceedingly-Gen.13:13-they were wicked and corrupt,and immoral exceedingly,as the society is today.

    There was not marriage among them,the society was polluted of prostitutes and sodomites/effeminate(gays),the society was infested of prostitution and great sinners.Lot dwelling among them was vexed in seeing and hearing the filthy conversation of the wicked,Lot vexed his righteous soul from day to day due the unlawful deeds of them-2 Pe.2:7-8 combined with Jude 1:6-7.

    Get ready
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 7 months ago

    Part 4.

    You said we grow until we come to the full measure of Christ, and we will be glorified when we get our glorified bodies. "Which I believe also" ( Ephesians 4:12-13.

    So at what point do we lose salvation?

    Romans 8:13, "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye (THROUGH THE SPIRIT) DO MORTIFY THE DEEDS OF THE BODY, ye shall live.

    We are given Christ spirit for our infirmities, and that is areas we are weak in the flesh.

    What you described as one able to keep himself justified is not Salvation at all.

    Once you are saved God keeps on saying you. It's not a onetime transaction. Sanctification Is of the Lord, Justification is of the Lord. It's not in your hands to keep yourself saved.

    Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

    Part 5 I will attempt to give an example of Sanctification under the law and Gods acceptance of man's cleansing himself and a picture of the difference between the ministration of death and the ministration by the Spirit.

    See Part 5.
  • Ronald Whittemore - In Reply - 7 months ago
    S Spencer,

    Part four,

    2 Peter 2:20. They had the knowledge of the Lord and Savior; they were saved and had escaped the pollutions/sins of the world. Can we escape sin outside of Christ? They choose to go back to a life of habitual, intentional, and willful sin. And their punishment will be worse, Luke 12:47-48.

    Galatians 6:9 This to me is obedience, It says unless we faint, to me that is to give up, quit, intentionally turn away, we reap life everlasting. Colossians 1:23 "If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel". If we continue that is a choice, we must make that is not given that is our obedience.

    Jude 1:21 We are to keep ourselves, the Holy Spirit helps us, but this is something we do and if we do, He will keep us from falling. 2 Peter 1:10 If we do, it is not done for us, we have been given but it is up to us to obey and do, if they have forgotten they had to know it to forget it. If We Do!!! we shall never fall. Hebrews 6:13-16 What Abraham did, in his faith, he waited for a long time he endured. He did not faint or grow weary or turn his back to God, the evidence of his faith, just like when he drew back the knife.

    This is not about a Christian who is struggling and battling sin regardless of how long they struggle they are still in the race and if they repent and return in the light will be forgiven and in the grace of God. As David said restore unto me the joy of thy salvation, Psalms 51:12. We all are in a battle with our flesh and sin daily. We can lose the joy of salvation and if we come under repentance, we will still be in God's grace but without repentance, we will be cut off.

    See part 5.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 8 months ago

    Part 6.

    This section I will attempt to address those scriptures you presented suggesting one can lose his Salvation.

    Hebrews 3:12-13.

    Verse 12) Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

    Well, if there is an evil heart of unbelief, and deceitfulness of sin. THEN YOU ARE NOT SAVED!

    1 John 1:7.

    Ronald, I don't grasp you here. This is not a verse saying you can lose Salvation.

    "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, if we are in the light we are saved. If we are not in the light, we are not saved.

    2 Peter 2:20.

    Look at 2 Peter 2:22. These are dogs, NOT SONS! This is the same group described in the previous verses!

    Take it from 2 Peter 2:9-20 to get the context.

    Galatians 6:9.

    Christians will go before the judgement seat of Christ to give an account for the things done in the flesh.

    We are to keep sowing and in due season we will reap. this is the fruit of their labor.

    He that soweth to the Spirit, sows to the spirit by the power of the Holyspirit.

    Paul has just asked the Galatian Christians to be convinced, once again, that trusting their flesh in this life will only lead to corruption. Reliance on our own power only leads to death. That is true whether we trust human effort to save us by following the rituals and sacraments of the law, or by following our own selfish, sinful desires.

    Salvation comes only by "planting" the Spirit. Through faith in Christ for the forgiveness of our sin.

    God gives to us His own Spirit. Only that Spirit will deliver eternal life in the end.

    Colossians 1:23.

    Verses 21-22 states we have been reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

    Jude 1:24. says "Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

    So, those who is moved away from the faith was never saved.

    See Part 7.
  • Frankie J - 8 months ago
    2 of 2

    , that we must pickup, teaching us to deny these ungodly & worldly lust, & pleasures of this world, which spring up within us & also instructs us in works of righteousness unto holiness this is Christ Spirit / Grace / Light appearance in us to combat the spirits of darkness that appears. Ephesians 6:12 it not without only, Jesus says it's within our hearts Matt 15:19 2Cor 10:5,6


    Awake to Righteousness & in time through the exercising of Him, the Grace of God, you'll sin not & be conformed to His Image

    For He only become Hebrews 5:9

    Are have you been deceived by those Paul warned us about in

    2 Timothy 4:3,4 Jude 1:4 Believing against Scriptural Truth, that turn the Grace of God into wantonness, that you can live a life of sin & iniquity & have a faith that never overcome satan, & still be born again, Spirit baptized, & a light that set upon a hill, if this be true of you, your in the Apostasy, the deceitfulness of sin/satan has ensnare you. 2 Thess 2:10-12 is fulfilling upon you, your faith is a lie, John 3:18-20 Rom 1:25


    The working out of our salvation, the sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience, washing of regeneration & renewing of the Holy Ghost is on this side of the grave. What spiritual state we're in when we die, is the state we will be judge in! & if the 1Pet 4:18 be not decieived, 1John 3:7,8,11

    I've spoken this to many people, their response is 'that God is loving, gracious & merciful" very true, that why He sent His only begotten Son to provide a Way, through His Grace & Mercy to overcome the devil & become more than conquerors, through Him that loves us,. This is the whole revelation of the better Covenant, build on better promises, Grace & Mercy takes us out of sin, it's the Rom 8:2 it doesn't leave us in our sins, to pacifying us, saying Oh it's ok we know you can't be perfect, the lie.


    For the sake of God's great love wherewith He has demonstrated in sending His Son, consider your state 2Cor 13:5
  • Jim Miller - In Reply - 8 months ago
    PART 4 Faith/Grace

    The Spirit conveys God's mercy, forgiveness and acceptance, and he gives them the desire and power to do God's will ( Jn 3:16; 1Co 15:10; Php 2:13; 1Ti 1:15-16). The whole process and progress of the Christian life, from beginning to end, is dependent on this grace.

    (1) God gives a degree of grace as a gift ( 1Co 1:4) to unbelievers (i.e., those who do not yet know or have not accepted Christ) so that they may be able to respond to his message and mercy and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ ( Eph 2:8-9; Tit 2:11; 3:4).

    (2) God gives grace to believers (i.e., those who choose to accept and follow Christ) so they can be "set free from sin" (Ro 6:20, 22), "to will and to act according to his good purpose" ( Php 2:13; cf. Tit 2:11-12; see Mt 7:21, note on obedience as a gift of God's grace). God's grace also helps believers to pray ( Zec 12:10), to grow in their relationship with Christ ( 2Pe 3:18) and to communicate the message about Christ to others (Ac 4:33; 11:23).

    (3) God's grace must be desired, pursued and accepted ( Heb 4:16). Some of the ways by which God's grace is received are: studying and obeying God's Word ( Jn 15:1-11; 20:31; 2Ti 3:15); hearing and responding to the preaching of the gospel-the "good news" about Christ ( Lk 24:47; Ac 1:8; Ro 1:16; 1Co 1:17-18); praying ( Heb 4:16; Jude 1:20); fasting, which is going without food for a period of time to focus on spiritual matters through prayer ( Mt 4:2; 6:16); worshiping Christ ( Col 3:16); being continually filled with the Holy Spirit ( Eph 5:18); and participating in the Lord's Supper, or "communion" (Ac 2:42; see Eph 2:9, note on how grace works).

    (4) God's grace can be resisted and rejected ( Heb 12:15), received in vain and without lasting effect ( 2Co 6:1), set aside and disregarded ( Gal 2:21) and abandoned by people who, at one time, truly believed and accepted Christ ( Gal 5:4).

    J. Wesley Adams and Donald C. Stamps, Fire Bible (Springfield, MO: Life Publishers International, 2011)
  • Jim Miller - In Reply - 8 months ago
    PART 3

    (4) Examples of actual apostasy can be found in Ex 32; 2Ki 17:7-23; Ps 106; Isa 1:2-4; Jer 2:1-9; Ac 1:25; Gal 5:4; 1Ti 1:18-20; 2Pe 2:1, 15, 20-22; Jude 1:4, 11-13; see article on The Age of the Antichrist, for comments on apostasy predicted to occur within the church in the last days before Christ returns to take the faithful in his churches from the world.

    (5) The steps that lead to apostasy are as follows:

    (a) Believers-those who have accepted God's forgiveness and entered a personal relationship with him through faith in Christ-become spiritually unconcerned, resistant or outright rebellious. These individuals show their unbelief by failing to take seriously all of the truths, challenges, warnings, promises and teachings of God's Word ( Mk 1:15; Lk 8:13; Jn 5:44, 47; 8:46).

    (b) If the realities and desires of the world become a higher priority than the realities and desires of God's kingdom and purposes, then believers gradually cease to recognize and experience companionship with God through Christ ( Heb 4:16; 7:19, 25; 11:6).

    (c) Because of the deceitfulness of sin (i.e., anything that offends or defies God or falls short of his standard), believers become increasingly tolerant of sin in their own lives ( 1Co 6:9-10; Eph 5:5; Heb 3:13). They no longer love what is right and hate what is wrong (see Heb 1:9, note).

    (d) Their hearts become spiritually hardened ( Heb 3:8, 13), resistant and unresponsive to God. Eventually, they openly reject his way (3:10), ignoring the repeated inner voice and rebuke of the Holy Spirit ( Eph 4:30; 1Th 5:19-22).

    (e) The Holy Spirit becomes grieved ( Eph 4:30; cf. Heb 3:7-8), his fire is "put out" ( 1Th 5:19) and his temple (i.e., the person's body and life) is violated ( 1Co 3:16). As a result, the Holy Spirit eventually departs from the believer's life (Jdg 16:20; Ps 51:11; Ro 8:13; 1Co 3:16-17; Heb 3:14).
  • Frankie J - In Reply - 8 months ago
    to all who commented


    In Peter stating "no prophecy of the Scripture", then explains what he's referring to in the next verse, "but holy men of God spake as they were " MOVED by the HOLY GHOST "

    He's speaking of the Holy Spirit voice speaking in our hearts, 2Cor 4:6, which "Treasure we have in these earthen vessels", that Peter refers to 2Peter 1:19 "a light that shines in a dark place" 1John 2:27 it's the sure Word of prophecy This is how they received the faith that we are earnestly to contend for Jude 1:3 believing that it is He speaking to us, "the Word of Faith" that's near us even in our hearts & in our mouth, that Paul preached. Rom 10:17 the Living Word, Christ, not the letter, but His Spirit.

    For the testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of prophecy Rev 19:10 by which the Scriptures were received & written , 2 Tim 3:16

    It's the Spirit of Grace appearance, refer to in John 1:9, that Peter is referring to as the sure Word, for He will speak the same meaning of the Scriptures to all, which He inspired. John 16:13

    For all that would submit to Him, He will bring into the unity of the Faith of the Son of God as it was in the beginning

    Acts 4:32

    This present "thread" is an witness against all of you of His lack of inspiration among you,

    Given forth for no other reason, but to awaken you to the reality of your condition, that you may recover from her cup.

    Rev 17:2-5

    In love & truth
  • David0921 - 8 months ago
    Jude 1:3,4 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the COMMON SALVATION, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should EARNESTLY CONTEND FOR THE FAITH which was ONCE DELIVERED ONTO THE SAINTS. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the GRACE of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Eph 2:1-10 And you hath HE QUICKENED, who were DEAD IN TRESPASSES AND SINS; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were DEAD IN SINS, hath QUICKENED US together with Christ, (by GRACE ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his GRACE in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by GRACE are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the GIFT OF GOD: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast. For we are HIS WORKMANSHIP, created in Christ Jesus UNTO GOOD WORKS, which God hath BEFORE ORDAINED that we should WALK IN THEM.

    Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is NOT JUSTIFIED BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW, but by the FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be JUSTIFIED BY THE FAITH OF CHRIST, and not by the WORKS OF THE LAW: for by the WORKS OF THE LAW shall NO FLESH BE JUSTIFIED.

    2 Cor 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a NEW CREATURE:---

    1 John 2:3 And hereby we do KNOW that we KNOW HIM, if we KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.
  • Chris - In Reply - 8 months ago
    I'm sorry Rainwalker, the belief in a literal Hell & a literal eternal torment for those who have rejected God & His Christ is not an idea from the dark ages nor from the Vatican - this is Scripture & plenty of them to support it. It's how one chooses to read, understand & accept the teachings from the Word that is in question - the Word does not change.

    Look at Daniel 12:1,2; Matthew 18:9; Matthew 25:31-46; Mark 9:42-48; 2 Thessalonians 1:5-10; Jude 1:7; Revelation 14:9-11; Revelation 20:10,14,15. These do not speak of an annihilation, but of torment. And what were "their works"? Works of sinful lives, of self-glorification, of being God-haters & Christ-rejecters. If we remove the eternal suffering of Hell, we've lost a great part of our Gospel message, i.e. we not only won't have a Gospel to preach, we won't even need to preach the Gospel. Jude 1:23, "And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh."

    If the preacher hasn't got the awful image before him of souls for whom Christ died, going into an eternity of torment, then that preacher is preaching a watered down Gospel, one that tickles the mind but doesn't wrench the heart - a Gospel that only requires a glib acceptance of a lowly Jesus but not weeping in sorrow for sin's wretchedness before an Holy God. Christ didn't give up His Life only to bring sinners into Heaven, but to save them from His Father's Judgement sending them to an eternity of suffering. This is why the cost of Salvation had to be so great - it took the Son of God to come between an Holy God & a hell-deserved, hell-bound sinner. We all have to die one day - but through Christ, not all have to be consigned to Hell.
  • Ronald Whittemore - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Hi S Spencer,

    I agree this should not cause any division, we must always treat each other with care and love of growing in faith and knowledge of the word of God.

    Everlasting punishment, I once understood the same as you on this when we read Matt. 18:8 Matt. 25:46 and 2 Thess. 1:9 they seem to support it. And the verses that have "weeping or wailing and gnashing of teeth" that I cringe every time I read them. So, after the white throne judgment, all the wicked and unsaved people will be cast into the lake of fire the everlasting fire Rev. 20:15 Rev. 21:8 and they have a conscious eternal, everlasting, forever and ever suffering.

    On the other hand, we have Matt. 10:28 God can destroy both soul and body in hell/geenna. This carries us back to that other topic the immortal soul. In John 3:16 and Romans 6:23, the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. The wicked will perish, be destroyed, and be consumed. If the wicked are to be tortured in the lake of fire forever, they would also be given eternal life.

    The fire is everlasting, it is permanent they will be destroyed and never come back they will not ever live again. We see what eternal fire can do in Jude 1:7 with Sodom and Gomorrha they were destroyed and have never returned.

    Rev. 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

    You may see this verse differently but "shall have their part in the lake" I understand as God's fair justice, like stripes in Luke 12:48. Just punishment for their works or should be said their wickedness. If the wages of sin is death I believe the second death is everlasting death, forever to be no more, not everlasting punishment.

    Just my understanding thanks again for your replies.

    God bless,

  • David0921 - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Jema and others,

    The Bible is very clear that when Christ applies His Salvation to one of His Elect and they become "saved", they become Born Again, they are given ETERNAL LIFE at that moment. This occurs in their Soul, which then can NEVER DIE. But their Body has not yet become "saved" and will die.

    So when the True Believer dies, their Body goes into the grave and corrupts; and must wait the Last Day to be Resurrected a Spiritual Body. But in their Soul, they go immediately to be with Christ in Heaven.

    2 Corinthians 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at HOME in the body, we are ABSENT from the Lord: (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be ABSENT from the body, and to be PRESENT with the Lord.

    1 Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the COMING of our Lord Jesus Christ WITH ALL HIS SAINTS.

    1 Thessalonians 4:13-16 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God BRING WITH HIM. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

    Jude 1:14,15 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, THE LORD COMETH WITH TEN THOUSANDS OF HIS SAINTS, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
  • Bro dan - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Hi Jema,

    You state: "I think there is a difference between trying to obey the commandments and believing that we need to obey them in order to be acceptable to God." Jesus doesn't agree with you Jema, and He is telling you that we must do this to be acceptable - to Him. I previously gave you the verse below spoken by Jesus, He is telling us point blank:

    Revelation 22:14"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."

    Jesus leaves no wiggle room in the above verse. Hebrews 4:12 False teachers are very prevalent today, they are out amongst us, they believe and teach others that they can ignore tons of scripture like this regarding the commandments and sin. They live worldly lives almost indistinguishable from the secular/atheists. They try to convince themselves, and others that they can have this world and still receive salvation. Jude 1:10

    Jema, I remember FrankieJ previously gave you some good spiritual advice, I will also. We must withdraw from the world. Put God first, including His Commands/Commandments.

    Stop telling yourself and others that you can NEVER stop sinning. If you have God's Holy Spirit anything is possible! Have Faith! Believe!!!

    Encourage yourself and others to stop sinning. Similar to alcohol and drugs, Sin is a Addiction. If you don't acknowledge it - it will control you and ultimately bring you to destruction.

    3 John 1:11 "Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God."

    And please remember if you want God to dwell in you: 1 John 3:24 "And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us."

  • Shylesh - 9 months ago
    In KJV it says

    Jude 1:19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

    (looks like, this speaks about causing problem to himself)

    But in Tyndale it says

    Jude 1:19 These are makers of sectes fleshlie havynge no sprete.

    (looks like, this speaks about causing problem to the church)

    In BSB it says: These are the ones who cause divisions, who are worldly and devoid of the Spirit.

    Which one is correct "separate themselves" or "makers of sectes" or "cause divisions" as in other translations?

    Because both "separate themselves" and "cause divisions" are different in meaning.

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