Bible Discussion Thread

 
  • Darrell Coleman on Genesis 1 - 3 years ago
    In Genesis 1 vs 28 when God blessed Adam and Eve and said "Be fruitful, multiply and replenish the earth". What is meant by "replenish "? Doesn't this allude to it having once been full and needs refilled?
  • Dianne - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 3 years ago
    You are correct, keep something always on your mind when reading Gods Word. He Has a reason for everything he said how he said it where he said it why he said it when he said it and to whom he said it.
  • LEON DAVIS - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 3 years ago
    Greetings in the name of Christ, Our Wonderful Savior! My brother Darrell, you are correct. Indeed, there was life upon the earth prior to the re-creation which began in Genesis 1:3. The first creation, which is mentioned in Genesis 1:1, was filled with God's pure light and utter perfection (the Urim and Thummim - Exod. 28:30). God is the quintessence of light and perfection. Therefore, everything He creates must reflect His level of creative beauty and flawlessness, for it comes from His being of utter perection. However, in Genesis 1:2 all light and perfection have been removed from the once perfect creation, and only three elements remain. They are darkness, a voided earth without form, and evidence of a Noahic-type deluge which probably reflects God's judgment.

    As correctly pointed out by one of the responders to your post, the word "replenish" in Genesis 1:28 and "fill" in Genesis 1:22 are translated from the same Hebrew word. However, scripture always verifies itself. Therefore, one must look to another verse usage for contextual clarification. God also told Noah to "replenish the earth" ( Gen. 9:1), and it is very obvious He meant for Noah's family to reproduce for the purpose of repopulating the earth because the prior inhabitants had been destroyed by the flood. Adam and Eve were given the same command to "replenish" because, with a high degree of probability, God's judgment in the form of a flood had also been passed upon the earth and its inhabitants.
  • Adams39s Mandate - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 3 years ago
    The interesting part of that verse, is: God gave them dominion over what he outlined. He did Not give him dominion over other humans.

    God created, garnished and filled the Garden. Their task was to tend to replacing what was being used. They would have children eventually.

    I was curious how they learned to make fire so they could cook and make materials for a house?
  • Lark McNamara - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 2 years ago
    native america and others use fire by old fashion survival for example stones or friction of stick. Adam and eve is very very very smart to figure out how to make fire as similar as native america culture.
  • Bible and Helps on this website - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 3 years ago
    Go back to the red link page and check those for a downloadable Bible.

    There's a KJV Bible, SEARCH box with a fast search engine

    Drop down from a searched verse and you'll see the Commentary Box
  • Chris - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 3 years ago
    Hello Darrell. Genesis 1:28 has sometimes been used to propagate the belief that the Earth was once populated by other humans & then maybe wiped out for some reason but now restored with the creation of Adam & Eve. In which case, these two are commanded to replenish that which was lost.

    However, upon checking the Hebrew word used in Genesis 1:28 & noting that the same Hebrew word is used in Genesis 1:22, the words 'replenish' & 'fill" appear to indicate that through procreation, both humans, sea creatures & fowls (& of course other creatures, by implication), should 'multiply their kind', therefore filling the Earth with God's creations as He purposed. I don't however, submit to a previous creation theory.
  • LEON DAVIS - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 3 years ago
    Greetings in the name of JESUS, Our celebrated King! Your observations in your reply to Darrell were astute. I ask that you consider the possibility that life was, indeed, upon the earth prior to the re-creation which began in Genesis 1:3. The first creation, which is mentioned in Genesis 1:1, was filled with God's pure light and utter perfection (the Urim and Thummim - Exod. 28:30). God is the quintessence of light and perfection. Therefore, everything He creates must reflect His level of creative beauty and flawlessness, for it comes from His being of utter perfection. However, in Genesis 1:2 all light and perfection have been removed from the once perfect creation, and only three elements remain. They are darkness, a voided earth without form, and evidence of a Noahic-type deluge which probably reflects God's judgment.

    The word "replenish" in Genesis 1:28 and "fill" in Genesis 1:22 are translated from the same Hebrew word. However, scripture always verifies itself. Therefore, one must look to another verse usage for contextual clarification. God also told Noah to "replenish the earth" ( Gen. 9:1), and it is very obvious He meant for Noah's family to reproduce for the purpose of repopulating the earth because the prior inhabitants had been destroyed by the flood. Adam and Eve were given the same command to "replenish" because, with a high degree of probability, God's judgment in the form of a flood had also been passed upon the earth and its inhabitants.
  • Chris - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 3 years ago
    Thank you Leon for your comments. I looked at Genesis 9:1 also, & the same Hebrew word is applied there, so really it is a matter of how one chooses to apply that word to those three references in Genesis given, whether "to fill up" or "to replenish"/refill. And when I read your understanding of Genesis 1:1-3, I still cannot discern a previous creation of humans being implied, nor that there was light created in verse 1. I'm not saying that those things are impossibilities, but I don't see it in the normal reading & understanding of that Scripture. Are you learning this information from other sources?

    And as far as the meaning & use of the Urim & Thummim goes, again, I can't assimilate them with God's pure Light & utter Perfection. God bless.
  • LEON DAVIS - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 3 years ago
    Greetings, brother, in His mighty name! Thank you for responding; I am enjoying corresponding with you. The inherency of the presence of light in God's creation as stated in Genesis 1:1 is based upon the law of reproduction. God is light and perfection. Therefore, just as any offspring must contain the DNA of its parent(s), all creative matter proceeding from God must also contain His light and reflect His perfection. An unformed, imperfect glob of earth submerged in water and suspended in total darkness ( Genesis 1:2) could never proceed from a God of light who is the quintessence of perfection.

    Concerning the Urim and Thummim, the words mean, respectively, "lights" and "perfection," which are two of the dominant characteristics of God. Therefore, when Aaron, the first high priest, who was imperfect because of an inherent sin nature, went before a perfect God of light, he had to put Urim and Thummim in the breastplate upon his heart ( Exod. 28:30) to make himself symbolically compatible with, and presentable before a God of light and perfection.

    Christ and His shed blood has now become the Urim and Thummim upon the hearts of all believers whereby we are now compatible with, and presentable before the Perfect God of the Universe! Amen!!!
  • Chris - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 3 years ago
    Hello Leon.

    Thank you again for your well-presented argument. Though not meaning to be argumentative, I would raise a question with your statement, "The inherency of the presence of light in God's creation as stated in Genesis 1:1 is based upon the law of reproduction." If I were to see a Law in operation in Genesis, I would more likely see a Law of Creation revealed to us rather than one of Reproduction. And in this Law, I would think that God could choose to create the worlds in whatever manner He wished & to create human/animal life to appear & behave according to that Design. Considering the worlds, I'm sure that not just the Earth only, but also the planets, stars & constellations, would have been created in the same manner, yet God choosing to make the Earth a habitable place to sustain His other Creations that were designed to live thereon. In very truth, God is Light & Perfection & couldn't be one iota less than His Glory demands, but He remains a God Who creates according to His Wise Determination whether in perfection & beauty or formless & empty.

    And indeed as you wrote, the Urim & Thummim have generally been understood to mean "lights & perfection" respectively, & yet there is any amount of other interpretations/meanings applied to them as well: such as 'revelation & truth', doctrine & truth', 'cursed or faultless', etc. Since Urim & Thummim don't have specific meanings in Hebrew (as do other Hebrew whole words), the use of certain Hebrew letters within those words (aleph, vav, resh), have other meanings that have been attached to them; hence "lights & perfections" have been strongly suggested. This information has been gleaned from various Hebrew sources.

    With that in mind, if I err by refusing to accept what is proposed, then so be it - I'd rather be cautious & read only from the Word & learn from the original language, than settle on other teachings or possibilities that might take me further away from what the Lord has intended. Blessings.
  • LEON DAVIS - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 3 years ago
    I greet you in the name of Christ! My brother Chris, I enjoyed your post, and wanted to continue the dialogue. Christ is the Light of the World ( John 8:12; 9:5), and it is by Him and through Him that everything in the universe was created

    from a foundation of light ( John 1:3; Col. 1:16-17; Heb. 1:2). God glories in His creation, for it attests to His greatness and excellency! It is His created child; and He would never give birth to a deformed child of darkness as described in Genesis 1:2. Such would be viewed as a microcosm of the rest of His creation, and detract from the breathtaking and incomprehensible beauty of creative mind.

    In a similar vein, I would be interested in hearing your views on John's statement that Christ was "slain from the foundation of the world" ( Rev. 13:8b), and the statement Christ makes that He is "the beginning of the creation of God" ( Rev. 3:14d). God bless you!
  • Chris - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 3 years ago
    Page 2.

    Revelation 3:14. We see this expression ("the beginning of the creation of God") only here. I would include Colossians 1:15-18 which speaks of Christ being "the firstborn of all creation - for by Him were all things created - through Him & for Him". Even though the Greek for 'beginning' & 'firstborn' are very different, I think the same application is implied: that Christ is the Creator (the beginning) of all creation: both of the original creation & then being the forerunner of those IN Christ (the firstborn (& by implication, the Creator) of the new creation) - also Romans 8:29; Hebrews 12:23. Blessings.
  • LEON DAVIS - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 3 years ago
    Brother Chris, this is a continuation of the first post. Concerning Christ being Alpha, the first, the beginning, and firstborn of the creation, I would like you to consider to following postulate: Christ is the transformational means by which God's creative will becomes atomic matter. God is completely Spirit; therefore, His Spirit is an intrinsic element inside of every spiritual entity he creates (e.g. cherubim, angels). However, matter is a different realm, existing outside of God. Therefore, God united both realms by creating the physical body of Christ as the perfect hybrid which was 100% God and 100% matter. Christ became God's archetypical conversion chamber through which all created atomic matter proceeded. Therefore, the DNA of Christ is inside of all atomic matter. Rather, all created matter is inside of Christ, which is why Paul says, "For in Him we live, and move, and have our being." The creation works so harmoniously because Christ, or to be exact, His physical body, was the first created entity, and all the rest of creation contains His DNA. He, then, is the Masterful Conductor who causes all things to blend into a beautiful creative symphony.

    God's dictates all salvation-related events connected to His elect which occur throughout man's chronological journey on earth. His pre-ordained will is signified in the book which Christ comes to take out of the Father's hand in Revelation 5:1-7. It was written in God's created universe that Christ would be crucified should man fall before the first seal was opened and the story of man began. Therefore, Christ was the only one who open the book and begin the story of man for only His life could end the story with man living forever with God. Therefore, Christ had already been crucified in the spiritual realm and the elect were chosen before the foundation of the world ( Eph. 1:4,5, 11).
  • Chris - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 3 years ago
    Just continuing with this brother & enjoying the exercises of knowledge & faith that you're giving me.

    Various Scriptures (e.g. Romans 8:29, Colossians 1:15, Hebrews 12:23) speak of Christ being the "firstborn of creation & the firstborn of the Church". He was first to give birth to His creative work & by definition, entitled to be pre-eminent with highest honour & rank over all. And by virtue of His Death & Resurrection, the first to bring Deity & humanity together in one, i.e. to His Church, as He is now in the flesh as well.

    Therefore, I would rather think that it's not the "DNA of Christ" that is in all atomic matter, but His Spirit Who was in Him & now given to those who call upon His Name. As we know, our composition is spirit, soul & body and that spirit has, since the fall, been devoid of any attachment to the Spirit of God. Yet, it is to that same spirit of man that the Holy Spirit attaches when re-birth has taken place. Then what we read in Acts 17:28, given to the unsaved Athenians, finds its perfect fulfilment in Romans 8:1, 1 Corinthians 1:30, Ephesians 1:3, etc., where once we were just the "offspring of God" receiving life & breath from God, but now, through Christ the firstborn of His Church, we receive spiritual life & the ministry of the Deity in manifold ways. I can't see that His 'DNA' is in all living creation, which after all, have been created from dust, but His Spirit is given to those coming to Him via the Cross.

    I can agree though with your last paragraph concerning "the Lamb being slain from the foundation of the world". What was in God's Will to occur, will occur, & can be treated as fact even before they happen. Christ's crucifixion was real in God's Plan & became a physical reality at Calvary. Thank you Leon for sharing your thoughts.
  • OSEAS - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 3 years ago
    LEON DAVIS

    You wrote: LEON DAVIS - in Reply on Genesis 1

    ...

    Therefore, Christ had already been crucified in the spiritual realm and the elect were chosen before the foundation of the world ( Eph. 1:4,5, 11 Ephesians 1:4,5, 11 (KJV)

    Yes, "the elect were chosen before the foundation of the world", but before which world? Could you tell us? My question is valid because "we understand that the WORLDS were framed by the Word of GOD -the Word is GOD -, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear". Heb.11:v.3
  • Chris - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 3 years ago
    Page 1.

    Greetings to you brother Leon. Sending this response in two pages.

    The Scriptures you cited on Christ the Light & His involvement in creation were excellent: none can oppose such Truth. The question remains, could a God, who is Light & dwells in Light, cannot also create something that has no light or is unformed? Your answer to this is noted - my answer compels me to look at the whole of creation, which does not always attest to a God of Light creating what we would like to think or believe as perfect. We would have to ask about the creation of the other planets & stars: were they created perfect? If yes, then is their present perfection by our standards actually an imperfection? Or, if Earth's formless, empty condition in Genesis 1:2 was as a result of being evil affected, how could an evil entity be able to create such a cataclysmic condition to God's creation? Why hasn't that happened now to the Earth under our present abounding evil? All rhetorical questions no doubt, & for that reason I could never formulate a belief on a single verse & make an assumption that God has to work in a certain manner just because He is a God of Light.

    Revelation 13:8. In the normal reading of that verse, it speaks of the Christ, the Lamb of God, Who was in the Plan of God even before the Earth's creation, to one day become God's sacrificial Lamb. So clear was His destiny, it could be said that His coming as God's Word, His preparation, & His ministry labelled Him as One already sacrificed (ahead of time).

    Yet, when reading this verse from the Lexicon, it's interesting that it's given as 'those whose names have not been written from the foundation of the world, in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain'. However, I doubt whether the verse should be understood in this way, though there is Truth in this also.
  • LEON DAVIS - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 3 years ago
    Peaceful salutations in His name! I thank God for you, Brother Chris! Your passion for God's word and the grace of Christ displayed in your replies are commendable! "Iron sharpens Iron" ( Prov. 27:17), which is why conversations such the ones we are having are very beneficial. In response to your initial question, God does not create anything that does not glorify Him, nor serve a purpose to fulfill His Divine will (Is. 45:7; Rev. 4:11). God is the Master Artist, and the created universe is His canvas. All strokes of the paint brush, and the colors and textures of all paints used are intentional.

    Undoubtedly, the conditions in Genesis 1:2 were the result of God's judgment in the form of a Noahic-type flood in which He extracted all light and structure from the earth, leaving it in a "voided" state, the Biblical definition of which is associated with emptiness, desolation, and chaos. Scripture suggests the reason for God's judgment in Ezekiel 28:11-19. It speaks of the adversary, the old serpent ( Rev. 12:9), having been in the Garden of Eden, and subsequently being stripped of all his glory after iniquity was found in him and he became filled with violence because of his merchandise. If, indeed, the earth was the setting for this activity, and had become the product of such violence and corruption, it would definitely have prompted God's judgment. Keep in mind that violence and corruption impelled God to pass judgment in the form of the Noahic flood ( Gen. 6:10-13).

    Following God's judgment, the evidence of which is found in Genesis 1:2, He presents Christ, His Son, in Genesis 1:3, who reintroduces light into the creation, reestablishes order, and proceeds to create. Today Christ continues to be the spiritual glue which holds the creation together and causes its harmonious functioning. Paul says, "by Him all things consist" ( Col. 1:17b).
  • Chris - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 3 years ago
    Brother Leon - greetings again & thank you for your detailed replies. I agree to the beauty of God's Handiwork & Artistry, and as in all artwork, "Beauty is indeed in the eyes of the beholder". What I might consider a grotesque, simplistic & meaningless piece of artwork when visiting an art gallery might well be a thing of beauty & rich in meaning to another, & therefore justifying its high price & demand. So, on this score, I don't see a formless, void, dark Earth as a creation of ugliness & deformity, but simply a part of the whole creation created by God having its own beauty painted by the Master Artist. Though, your next point concerning Eden requires comment.

    You referred to Ezekiel 28:11-19 & Satan's position in Eden. Are you inferring two Edens? One before this 'deformation of the Earth' where the once anointed cherub was found & the second, after a 'reformed Earth' with a restored Eden, yet with the same fallen, iniquitous rebel roaming its pristine environs? If then God's Judgement brought on a deformed cursed Earth because of Satan's wickedness, how does it figure that this newly 'reformed' Earth could contain the same evil now on the prowl and not bring on further similar desolation? Would not the Earth need to return to its 'original state' as the prince of this world now reigns?

    That is why I suggest that even though God's Judgement is sure & will always be evident now & in the future ages, the mentioning of the unformed barren Earth of Genesis, I don't believe is evidence of that judgement. And with so few verses available to form a qualified determination, my response, as in all such biblical scenarios, is to withdraw & accept the verses given without added interpretation. If giving them consideration, they would still remain to me as only hypotheses & add no value to knowledge or faith.
  • LEON DAVIS - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 3 years ago
    My precious brother Chris, thank you for replying. God only gives the "whole picture," or the milk in His word to set the foundation for worship and fellowship ( 1 Cor. 3:1-2; Heb. 5:12-14; 1 Pet. 2:2). However, He forces the diligent disciple to "work" at rising to the higher level of the "rich meat" of the truth, which is evident in Christ speaking exclusively in parables ( Matt. 13:34-35), and writing the Book of Revelation in highly symbolically language. I agree with you. One can adopt a position of not seeking. However, it is incredibly exciting to unlock those mysteries of which Christ spoke ( Matt. 13:11), concerning the past and the future! To the contrary, my faith is increased exponentially when God turns on "theological light bulbs" during one's searches, because, in the final analysis, all theological doctrine, whether from the Apostle Paul, St. Augustine, John Calvin, or Martin Luther, must begin with God-inspired theories based upon revelation into His word.

    The reconstituted creation did not contain the same evil which previously existed. Rather, evil was introduced when Adam and Eve ate of the forbidden fruit. Paul states, "The whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now" ( Rom. 8:22).

    Lastly, Christ is the only source of light and goodness in the entire creation, which includes all humankind, elect and non-elect. The only good inside of any person is Christ. In the born-again process the Holy Spirit opens the believer's eyes to Christ as that inner source of goodness, and places a name and face on the source. Similarly, light had been in the creation for three days before God brought forth the Sun as the source of the Light on the fourth day ( Gen. 1:3, 16; Mal. 4:2). Also, Christ spiritually permeated the world as the source of goodness for 4,000 years before He was born, and God put a name and face on the source of Light! Amen!
  • Chris - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 3 years ago
    Brother Leon. Concerning Scripture, I believe it is to be read normally & naturally (or else there would be no reason to read it at all), & where amplification is given or a deeper special meaning intended, the Word will show it for our benefit. For example, in Galatians 4:22-26, Paul speaks of Sarah & Hagar (Genesis chap 16 onwards). If we didn't have Paul's allegorical connection of Sarah & Hagar to the covenants, one of 'Freedom & Promise' in Christ & the Gospel, & the other of 'Bondage' to the Law, I wonder whether we would have missed it altogether?

    Even in the Book of the Revelation, some things are clearly metaphorical & left unexplained, while others are explained: e.g. Revelation 9:3ff on locusts as opposed to Revelation 1:20, the stars & candlesticks. With the latter, the meaning is given, but with the former, we can get several theories on who or what the locusts are. If one proclaims that he has the meaning, how are we to accept that without any Scriptural backing? If a mystery is unlocked & faith & joy have increased exponentially as a result, can it be expected that another person can share that same exuberance without confirmation from other Scriptures? Likewise, the two states of the Earth (once without form & void because of satanic interference & then re-created in perfection a second time with beaming light), becomes difficult to comprehend.

    You said, "The reconstituted creation did not contain the same evil which previously existed." I thought that this 'reconstituted creation' already had the same evil present - in Satan, who was there ready to pounce on the new humans to make them like himself. Adam & Eve's disobedience manifested into evil only because of the evil already present. And as a result, the whole creation groaneth & travaileth in pain till the present. But "the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God" in that coming day. Blessings to you brother.
  • LEON DAVIS - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 3 years ago
    Greetings Brother Chris. This is a very interesting discussion; thank you. The Garden of Eden was paradise; and there was no evil in the reconstituted creation. Nakedness, which connotes shame ( Rev. 3:18), could not exist, for where there was no evil, and where there is no evil there is no sin, and where there is no sin, there is no shame. Darkness always represents evil. Therefore, the spiritual state of evil was a present force in Genesis 1:2. However, God "closed" the reconstituted creation and its inhabitants to its effects. This is conveyed in Adam and Eve's eyes being "closed" until they were "opened" after eating of the forbidden fruit, and the presence of evil flooded the creation.

    Concerning the serpent being allowed in the Garden, God always forces those created as freewill agents, which are angels and mankind, to make choices which define their loyalty. Love cannot truly be quantified without a test of "relational againstness." In other words, a man does not truly love his wife if he cannot pass the test of adultery. Adam was to become the father of the elect, and receive the glory which was passed on to Abraham. Therefore, he had to be tested, just as Abraham's allegiance and love for God was tested; he had to prove that He loved God more ( Gen. 22:16-18).

    Following his fall, the adversary was relegated to the position of tempter ( Matt. 4:3). Just as he tempted Christ, he was only allowed in the garden to tempt Eve, who was then used to test Adam's loyalty to God ( 1 Tim. 2:14-15). Adam listened to Eve and failed his test, unlike Job, who did not listen to his wife, and ultimately passed his test ( Job 2:9-10).

    May God bless you.
  • Chris - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 3 years ago
    Thank you once again for your comments, brother Leon. I generally understand & agree with your comments, but if I could direct you to what you wrote: "Following his fall, the adversary was relegated to the position of tempter. Just as he tempted Christ, he was only allowed in the garden to tempt Eve, who was then used to test Adam's loyalty to God."

    I believe we have a problem here: Satan's fall is alluded to in Isaiah 14:12-15 & Ezekiel 28:12-19. And then we have Job 1:6,7. So the questions that arise are: at what point was Satan cast down to the Earth & were there two castings down? One, which caused Genesis 1:2 & another that brought on Genesis 3:1-15? For, if the first beautiful Earth was corrupted by reason of Satan's involvement, then where did he go between the first & second creations of Earth, since he lost his position in Heaven, no doubt?

    Does Satan's "walking to & fro in the Earth & walking up & down in it" apply to the second creation of Earth, where we find him all over the Earth, including Eden, & then again some years later during the lifetime of Job? If that's the case, then he being wholly evil, walking all over this globe, causing mankind's fall & causing Job his ultimate test, surely must indicate that such evil must breed evil, not only to those tested but to all of 'groaning' creation so affected?

    Therefore, looking at the Scriptures given by the Lord for us to work with, to have a two-Earth belief (once unformed & then reformed), becomes very difficult to acquiesce to, for Satan's position in either world, must mean a corruption of that world; i.e. if Satan was the reason for the first deformation, the reformation of the second must be likewise affected. Or, if God cleaned up the first then why permit Satan to be around to also affect the second? To be around again, just to test mankind's fidelity to Him, seems a weak reason in light of the extent of damage that was in Satan's power. The Lord be with you.
  • Dianne - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 3 years ago
    Some food for thought Almighty God is the also the God of freedom of will or choice but also the God of all order. That being said all of His Created works whether Spiritual beings ie. angels good or bad because all angels are messengers of light or darkness. God being all powerful and perfect as was original creation, Genesis !:1 all creation was perfect. In Genesis 1:2 in the original text the word was is became which changes a lot of things, also agrees with The scripture God is Light and in God is no Darkness at all. Starting in Genisis 1:3 God starts putting back together that which The adversary screwed up it was a cataclysmic event which wiped out the original creation. How much time is involved between Gen.1:1and Gen. 1:2 no one knows but guaranteed it did't happen over night also, people want to get into how old earth is, no man knows but God put it simple In The Beginning Can't beat that. I'll stick with scripture in the God given original text. Again keep something in mind The true God never messes with freedom of will Good Example Adam and Eve. Just food for thought. God Bless
  • Chris - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 3 years ago
    Thank you Dianne for your contribution to this thread. I did take note of your understanding of Genesis 1:2 (i.e. saying that in the original text, 'was' is actually 'became'). So, I looked up the Hebrew for that word, which is 'ha-ye-tah', & the meaning given is, 'fall out, come to pass, become', which correlates to somewhat to your understanding. And yet, in reading the Hebrew Interlinear rendering, the word 'was' is still used & not implying that the Earth became something imperfect from something perfect. Of course, the word could allow for the other as well.

    In any case, the point I was making in this thread, was that even if the Earth became formless & void from the workings of Satan (or, whatever), what Scriptures are evident to show that actually happened that way? All I see is a possible story built around that verse to give it its 'intended' meaning. And I'm afraid, I never approach Scripture in that manner, or else we can really get off track, & even with the very brief explanation of the Earth's creation given to us in the Bible, the best I can do is to allow for other possibilities & leave them as such - possibilities. There is no verse in the Bible that suggests that Satan being cast down to Earth caused the Earth then to take on such a void, dark & ugly condition. To suggest that a God of Light can create such an Earth is debatable, seeing that He has also created the other worlds of planets, stars & asteroids, which are not exactly in pristine condition by our standards of course, before God's Light shined. I appreciate your input here - blessings.
  • OSEAS - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 3 years ago
    Genesis was revealed to Moses after 2.500 years after Adam or around 1.500 years BC,and around 3.000 years after the rebellion in Eden, beginning by the ruler of Eden, a Cherub.

    Genesis 1:v.1- 1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

    Comments: In JESUS, GOD the Father created the heavens(FOUR HEAVENS) and the earth. (earth here has nothing to do with the Planet Earth, there is a great MYSTERY hidden by the Spirit of GOD, the common man will never understand it.)

    2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

    Comments: Actually, if the Bible was speaking of the Planet Earth, it would never be written without form, of course, but

    the earth that GOD revealed to Moses IT REALLY had not any FORM, it was void, yeah, was void of the Spirit of GOD, the Word, the Word is GOD; SO, darkness was upon the face of the deep(infested of a multitude of rebels), but the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. GOD always was present here( Isaiah 40:v.21-23.Check it out)

    3 And God said, Let there be light:and there was light.4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

    Comments: What was the intention of GOD in this moment?In His Omniscience and Omnipotence He would go to establish two Alliances with the inhabitants of the Earth through His light.(Please, read 1Thes.5:v.4to8)

    5 And God called the light Day,and the darkness he called Night.And the EVENING and the MORNING were the first Day.

    NOTE:

    After the rebellion in Eden( Jude 1:v.6),GOD planned to restore all things in six days, and in His WISDOM started to work in His plan around 500 years after the rebellion in Eden( Genesis 6:1to5; Jude 1:v.6),it was already EVENING.

    Genesis 5 describes a generation of GOD's seed according His plan.Did not he make one?Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one?That he might seek a godly seed. Mal.2:15
  • Dianne - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 3 years ago
    Chris I can appreciate your statement on sticking with scripture, something to consider what we have now either in kingjames or other translations is not the Word of God which was given when Holymen of God spoke 2 Peter 1:20 +21 I am not saying that I do not believe the bible to be Gods Word but when it was translated even as you stated the translators chose a lot of things based on their belief system. Example Look up Eli Eli lama sabachthani in mathew. The translators put in my god my god why has thou forsaken me, if you look up those words in old testament lama sebachthani means kept or spared, now in Gods word Jesus Christ always did the fathers will so when he was on the cross for us He was doing the fathers will. Now you will tell me God forsook Him Because He can't stand sin, I agree that God does'nt like broken fellowship but His Son our saviour Always did the Fathers will. Something to consider, and yes there are places in kjv that what was translated doesn't fit with the Entire Word, thats not saying God got it wrong man did.
  • Chris - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 3 years ago
    I did check the Hebrew on Psalm 22:1, Dianne, where those words "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?" are given. The Hebrew for "(why) have you forsaken Me" is "a-zab-tani" which means to "forsake, be remote, absent". I don't understand your rendering of "kept or spared". I remain perplexed. Thank you again & blessings.
  • Dianne - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 3 years ago
    Look up the llamsa Bible which on occasion is used as reference material and taken from the aramaic text and see how He translated it. To me bro these things I don't wrestle with because I'ved learned that this field of thought depends a lot on what people are taught and or who they choose to believe or follow. I'm just here to give another perspective.
  • Chris - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 3 years ago
    Thank you Dianne. I did read up on the Lamsa Bible (George Lamsa) & particularly on Matthew 27:46 & how he has interpreted it. I guess he has his own way of looking at the words & grammar, just as there are many variations of interpretations given by others (Westcott & Hort, etc). What was of interest & concern to me, was that he didn't connect Matthew 27:46 to Psalm 22:1, rather said "that the text of the Gospels was corrupt and that it is not a quotation but should read /Eli, Eli, lemana shabaqthani, which he translates as: "My God, my God, for this I was spared!" An accompanying footnote in Lamsa's English version of the Bible explains Jesus' meaning as "This was my destiny.""

    If that being the case & he doesn't make the connection between the two portions of Scripture, then what else can one say? Thanks again for your input: I can now appreciate the basis of your understanding & interpretation, at least of these passages.
  • Dianne - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 3 years ago
    Chris if you want to look up some interesting stuff look into E.W. bullingers Witness of the Stars or figures of Speech in the bible and Numbers in scripture unbelievably in depth and the amount of detail will blow your mind. If His writings aren't inspired by God then I've admittedly missed the boat. That being said take a look and have fun. In His Service Me
  • Dianne - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 3 years ago
    Another point to consider in one of Johns Epistles it states that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all, since that is Gods word than that which God created originally was all order and there can be no darkness in it. Notice Gen. 1:3 first move by God next Let there be light that word is phos spiritual light than later God turns on sun moon stars etc. Also notice carefully how many times God created in Genesis its very interesting. To me I'm after what is God saying not what I'm trying to decipher. Also I endeavor to read Gods word with all related scripture to subject matter considered because I don't believe the Bible has any error at all or contradictions as originally given because of 2 Peter 1:20&21. Just things to consider.
  • Chris - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 3 years ago
    Dianne, my Hebrew translation for the word 'Light' in Genesis 1:3 is 'or' or 'o-wr' & not 'phos'. And that word ('o-wr') only refers to physical light. And thank you for the other attached comments.
  • Sacha - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 3 years ago
    Hi Chris , please don't think I'm trying to be contentious , I promise I'm not , please consider , God created light before he created the sun and moon and stars ,so.....what was that light ? Where did it come from ? Just a thought , it's a rhetorical question so I don't expect an answer .
  • Dianne - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 3 years ago
    Very good point sasha most people don't ask the question, since the Bible says God is Spirit whatever that spiritual life is that is what I believe was turned on. Later on all other forms of physical lights I.E. Stars planets sun moon were put into place, also look closely how many times God created things, was taught that word create is to bring into existence that which never existed before and only God can do that. Man makes things but he has to start with something, God almighty only can create. Just some things to consider. P.S. Gen. 1:3 God said from verse 3-20 it doesn't say create until he gets to whales then after that not until he gets to man verse 27. Interesting stuff. Genesis is Dynamite. Just sayen
  • Earl Bowman - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 3 years ago
    Sister Sacha, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

    The Answer is:

    The FIRST LIGHT created was JESUS.

    Revelation 3:14 Jesus... the BEGINNING of creation.

    John 8:12 ....I am the light of the world ....
  • S Spencer - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 3 years ago
    Hi Brother Earl.

    I believe you gave us a view of the trinity. Gen. 1:1.In the beginning "El-o-heem'" created the heaven and the earth.

    Gen 1:2.And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the "SPIRIT OF GOD moved upon the face of the waters.

    Gen 1:3. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

    Now I'm not sure if you're saying Jesus was created in verse 3 or not but we are sure it's not so according to these verses.

    ( ALL THINGS WERE MADE BY HIM; and without him was not any thing made that was made.)

    In him was life; AND THE "LIFE WAS THE LIGHT OF MEN."

    Colossians 1:16-17. For by him were all things created, that are in HEAVEN, and that are in earth, VISIBLE AND INVISIBLE, whether they be THROWNS, or DOMINIONS, or PRINCIPALITIES, or POWERS: (all things were created by him, and for him:)

    And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

    "Point here is we see Angels created here as well!!

    And in Job 38:4-7. The Angels shouted for joy when Jesus created the Earth.

    "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

    Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

    Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

    When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

    John 17:5. And now, O Father, glorify thou me WITH THINE OWN SELF with the glory which I had with thee BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.

    Now we know he didn't come in the 4th Day!

    Gen 1:16. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. THE SUN. "Also created!" You see a contrast of that light and the light of Jesus in

    Revelation 21:23. and Revelation 22:5.

    Revelation 3:14. Means in the sense Jesus is the origin and source of Gods creation. Colossians 1:15-18. and head of the new creation. 2 Corinthians 5:17.

    God bles
  • Earl Bowman - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 3 years ago
    Brother S Spencer, I don't disagree with one single word you wrote. God is so far above our understanding it's mind boggling. He gives us his written word to study with out literal eyes and the living word LIVING IN US to barely glimpse and understand the next world, when we will live in the same glory with Christ as he had with the Father before the foundations of the world.

    The literal sun cannot exist and burn as literal fire without Christ (by him all things consist)(our God is a consuming fire). Yet; on the other hand, this same literal fire can LIVE IN US as spiritual fire, mind boggling.

    The literal sun (Christ) gives literal light the same literal sun (Christ) LIVES IN US and gives us spiritual light, mind boggling.

    Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so the things which are seen (literal things) were not made with things which do appear (can be seen, but by SPIRIT which can't be seen). All things are Spirit, some appear as literal.

    Hebrews 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers (can be seen): for thereby some have entertained angels (can't be seen) unawares.

    Spirit can manifest as literal. Christ is SPIRIT but can stand in the literal.

    How great the MYSTERIES OF GOD.
  • S Spencer - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 2 years ago
    Amen Brother Earl!!

    You given your strong stance on the everlasting Christ in the Past.

    I understand what you we're saying focusing on the Light.

    I've always always blew right by Gen ch 1 verses 1-3. I saw the trinity In "God," "He spoke," and Gods spirit brood"

    In verse 3 we see the manifestation of light from el-o-heem'

    I Will talk with you later, You are getting me in trouble, I'm working on my 5 year old, forever growing honey due list and got caught on the site with you.

    God bless.
  • Earl Bowman - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 3 years ago
    Brother S Spencer. I know Christ was begotten not created, but he was the beginning and he was the first light.


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