Bible Discussion Thread

 
  • Clayton - 2 years ago
    I have a co-worker who belongs to The Church of God and he has been taught the you must be baptized before you can get into Heaven. My belief is that if you confess Jesus as your Lord and Savior and believe that He died and rose again, you will be saved.
  • Brother dan - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Brother Clayton,

    Jesus speaks this scripture below that is very easy to understand.

    John 3:5 - Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

    Matthew 18:3

    "And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."

    It is not necessary to become bible scholars to understand bible scripture. But, we must become children, be born again of water and the Spirit - and believe!

    God Bless.
  • Adam - In Reply - 2 years ago
    I would investigate the motives behind this question. Is the goal to 'get out of' responsibility? Is the goal to do the bare minimum required as a Christian? Is the goal to avoid public embarassment or personal inconvenience? Which is more important- pleasing God, pleasing man, or pleasing yourself? Should a genuine Christian only strive to do the bare minimum God has 'required'?

    Paul in Romans 6:17-18 said we were servants (or slaves) to sin, and now are servants/slaves of righteousness. Would a slave of righteousness want to avoid obedience to Christ and only do the bare minimum required as a Christian? What if Jesus doesn't want our bare minimum effort- what if that's an insult to Him? He died for you. Maybe He wants 100% of you- a total commitment. If you were 100% for Jesus as #1 priority in your life, how might you live your life differently?

    It would be hard for a Bible-believing Christian to believe that Acts 2:38 means nothing. That it somehow means that you shouldn't be baptized, because it literally says TO be baptized. God bless...
  • GRACE_ambassador {ChrisE} - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Clayton, Precious friend. Two things concerning "baptized to be saved":

    (1) Prophecy/Law for ISRAEL: The Twelve Were Sent to water baptize!

    The TWO Main, of 12 baptisms =

    A) water, For remission of sins/induction into Israeli "priesthood!" ( Matthew 3:5-6) ( Mark 1:4) ( Luke 3:3) ( John 1:31) ( Luke 7:29-30) ( Acts 10:37) ( Matthew 28:19) ( Mark 16:16) ( Acts 2:38) ( Acts 22:16) ( Ezekiel 36:25) ( John 18:35) ( Exodus 19:6)

    +

    B) WITH The Holy Spirit, Poured Out By CHRIST, for power, signs And wonders! ( Isaiah 44:3) ( Matthew 3:11) ( Mark 1:8) ( Mark 16:17-18) ( Luke 24:49) ( Acts 2:17-18) ( Acts 2:38) ( Acts 8:15-17) ( Acts 11:16)

    Prophecy/Law

    Rightly Divided ( 2 Timothy 2:15) From Things That Differ!:

    (2) Mystery/GRACE! = our "apostle to the Gentiles" for The Body Of CHRIST:

    Paul Was Not Sent to {water} baptize! Why Not?:

    Today: Only ONE Baptism = "BY" The ONE Spirit = God's OPERATION,

    Spiritually Identifying members In (The ONE Body Of) CHRIST!!

    ( Ephesians 4:5) ( Colossians 2:12) ( Galatians 3:27) ( Romans 6:3-4)

    ( 1 Corinthians 12:13)

    -------------------------------

    Thus, This ONE Baptism Is Performed, By God, Today, Under God's GRACE/MYSTERY Program, when the believer "confesses Jesus as Lord and Savior and believes that He died and rose again, and God saves them" in the twinkling of an eye.

    So, "water baptism" Is Scriptural, But Dispensationally, "was for the Previous Law/Prophecy Program" of God, For ISRAEL!

    Conclusion, water baptism is Scriptural, but, TODAY, is UNdispensational! Amen?

    Please be Richly Encouraged, enlightened, exhorted, and edified!
  • Pat - In Reply - 2 years ago
    In John 3:1-7
  • Dave - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Clayton Acts 1:8 also Acts 2:38 also Acts 9:18 last but not least Romans 10:9+10 don't see any water just baptised or clothed with or endued with power from holy spirit. I'll stick with the scriptures
  • Chris - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Hello Dave. In my understanding, Acts 2:38 & Acts 9:18 refers to water baptism & not Spirit baptism ( Ephesians 4:5). Repentance & water baptism went hand-in-hand in those early days, unlike what we generally see today.
  • Dave - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Chris In the first two scripture mentioned water is not mentioned in Acts !: 5 For John truly baptised with water but ye shall saying separating the two in other words yes that is what John did but this is what will happen to you be baptised with Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit. That statement is setting a contrast from past to future, also water baptism was done under the law administration. The doctine to be born again is laid out in Romans 10:9-11. In Acts 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord how that he said John indeed baptised with water but in contrast but ye shall be baptised with Holy Ghost. Water baptism was administered under the law, after DAY OF PENTECOST grace administration its baptism by Holy spirit. There is a one time event in Acts 8 with Phillip and the man from Ethiopia where he took him down to water to be baptised but that was not the norm. At that the born again believers had the gift of holy spirit but the full knowledge of what they had was given to the apostle paul. That's why they were still practicing the law, even after the Church epistles were given the body of Christ was still many times caught up in legalistic behavior, this is expressed all through the church epistles. There is no where in the Church epistles where water baptism is required. Thats my understanding
  • Chris - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Thanks Dave. I guess we can't go further with this as I simply cannot see that Spirit baptism is being referred to in those two Scriptures I quoted. I can understand where you believe that water baptism is not referred to there, but the sense of those Scriptures convince me of water baptism.

    As well, "Law Administration" is difficult to comprehend when water baptism was not part of the Law to Israel (except concerning the priesthood as a ritual cleansing). Then later the 'mikveh' was introduced to include all Jews entering the Temple to be 'cleansed'. John the Baptist took this further & introduced the 'baptism of repentance' (one's desire for the cleansing of the heart), unlike the former, which was a physical token cleansing for entering the Temple. When Jesus instructed his disciples to "Go therefore", I understand that they were tasked to teach & baptize (with water) all nations - that this instruction was over & above any Law, belief, or understanding they might have entertained. So whether pre- or post-Cross, there doesn't seem to be any clear directive for that command by the Lord to have ever been rescinded. Blessings.
  • GRACE_ambassador {ChrisE} - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Precious brother Chris. So glad you brought up: "'Law Administration' is difficult to comprehend when water baptism was not part of the Law to Israel (except concerning the priesthood as a ritual cleansing)." In regards to this, you may find the following "view of Israel's priesthood" Very Interesting - thanks for your careful/prayerful consideration:

    {Borrowed from my 12 baptisms "study"}: ONE of Israel's various washings! Greek: Baptismos = ( Hebrews 9:10):

    4. Levitical priesthood baptism ( Exodus 29:4) ( Leviticus 8:6) ( Numbers 8:7). This washing was The Second Requirement { The First being: "NO blemish!" ( Leviticus 21:21) }, in order to become a priest under the Law of Moses! Is this baptism in any way connected To baptism # 9?:

    9. "water" baptism of repentance that John preached (Before The Cross), And Peter continued (After The Cross!), to preach! ( Matthew 3:5-6) ( Mark 1:4) ( Luke 3:3) ( John 1:31) ( Luke 7:29-30) ( Acts 10:37) ( Matthew 28:19) ( Mark 16:16) ( Acts 2:38) ( Acts 22:16) ( Ezekiel 36:25).

    a) Does this baptism "save" anyone ( Luke 7:29-30?)?

    b1) Is this baptism in any way "connected" to baptism # 4?

    b2) Wasn't John preparing National Israel for God's Promise For them "to be a nation of priests unto God" ( Exodus 19:6!)?

    b3) Was not The Second Requirement for priesthood induction, Washing? { may require re-review of baptism #4! }.

    b4) Did not CHRIST And The Twelve "heal" everyone in Israel who came to them, in order to meet "The FIRST Requirement" For the priesthood, that Of "NO blemish!"? ( Matthew 4:24) ( Acts 5:16) compare: ( Leviticus 21:21)

    More questions - to be continued
  • GRACE_ambassador {ChrisE} - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Part 2 More baptism questions for today's water adherents:

    9. "water" baptism of repentance:

    c) Is this baptism "for today"? IF this baptism is FOR US Today, we have Several More Questions:

    c1) Why does NO ONE Today, "teach, as John ( Under The LAW! ), Claimed": it is FOR "making CHRIST Manifest To Israel" ( John 1:31)?

    c2) Why does {Almost} NO ONE Today, "Confess their sins," when they come to This baptism ( Matthew 3:6) ( Mark 1:5)?

    c3) Why do not ALL Divided "denominations who WATER baptize" today, agree AS ONE, And "teach" water as John, CHRIST, And The Twelve ( Under The LAW! ), "taught" That "water baptism Is FOR The Remission Of sins!" ( Mark 1:4) ( Luke 3:3) ( Acts 2:38). { instead of each one's own "symbolic Re-Interpreted Traditions!" }?

    10. Baptism Of Anointing?: Pentecostal Spirit baptism; This is the baptism "WITH" The Holy Spirit, BY JESUS CHRIST, From Heaven, Poured Out Upon the believing remnant of Israel with signs and powers following. ( Isaiah 44:3) ( Matthew 3:11) ( Mark 1:8) ( Mark 16:17-18) ( Luke 24:49) ( Acts 2:17-18) ( Acts 2:38) ( Acts 8:15-17) ( Acts 11:16). And, is not THIS The THIRD Requirement For "priesthood induction" = Anointing? (compare ( Exodus 29:7) ( Leviticus 8:10-12).

    Is God Performing "This" Baptism On us TODAY?

    Conclusion: IF any water adherent, today, Under GRACE, believes he/she has been water baptized into the Israeli priesthood, is he/she Absolutely SURE he/she HAS MET The other TWO Requirements Of God? IF he/she has NOT "met them," then does THIS apply TO us TODAY?:

    God Superseded TWO baptisms, Under Law, With ONE Baptism , Under GRACE!

    Further Note: Paul, in Romans through Philemon, has NO doctrine of priesthood for The Body Of CHRIST, Under GRACE, Today...

    Exhausted by "study"? Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!
  • Chris - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Brother ChrisE. Thank you for your in-depth, enlightening comments on the various 'baptisms'. I may be mistaken, but I perceive that from your explanation of baptism history & its connection to the Baptism of John, that you also believe that today's water baptism (as prescribed by our Lord in Matthew 28:19,20) has lost its currency - that baptism by the Holy Spirit is what has been preached & given since the Church formed. Why I assume this, is from your Points #9, 9c, c1-3.

    Point 9: I don't believe the Apostle "Peter continued (After The Cross!), to preach" (John's baptism). I see that each of the baptisms were different: of the priesthood, the Jews, by John, administered to Christ, believers' baptism. As much as I can understand your connection of the various baptisms, the baptism of Jesus & then the subsequent baptism of Jesus' followers (post-Cross) are quite different. Why did the Lord volunteer to be baptized under John's baptism? He had no sin to repent of or of induction into the priesthood. If it was to "fulfil all righteousness", it indicated a different aspect to baptism that He alone could observe, fulfilling His Father's Will in preparation for the reason for His Coming.

    Points 9c, c1-3: "Baptism of Repentance" is not for today. That was peculiar to John's. The baptism post-Cross is what we term 'Believers' Baptism' & this is purely in response to the Lord's Directive & to Identification with Him. Colossians 2:10-12: "Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead." Also Romans 6:3,4; 1 Peter 3:20,21. In this baptism, confession of sins is not made as was under John's, because there is no transmission of Grace in it, simply one of obedience & identification: going 'part & parcel' with repentance & spiritual re-birth.

    But if you were referring only to those believing in baptism into the Israeli priesthood, but support 'believer's baptism', then I apologize.
  • GRACE_ambassador {ChrisE} - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Precious brother Chris said: "I perceive that from your explanation of baptism history & its connection to the Baptism of John, that you also believe that today's water baptism (as prescribed by our Lord in Matthew 28:19,20) has lost its currency - that baptism by the Holy Spirit is what has been preached & given since the Church formed.

    I believe there is NO water ritual {which was Previously FOR Israel}, for The Body Of CHRIST, currently, for Today - Summed Up:

    Mystery/GRACE! = our "apostle to the Gentiles" for The Body Of CHRIST:

    Paul Was Not Sent to {water} baptize! Why Not?:

    Today: Only ONE Baptism = "BY" The ONE Spirit = God's OPERATION, Spiritually Identifying members In (The ONE Body Of) CHRIST!! ( Ephesians 4:5) ( Colossians 2:12) ( Galatians 3:27) ( Romans 6:3-4) ( 1 Corinthians 12:13)

    Thus, it is impossible to ADD water, equalling TWO baptismS today, when God ONLY has

    ONE! Correct?

    I have an Expanded "study" on God's ONE Baptism, for us, The Body Of CHRIST, Today, IF you wish to consider it, also?...

    Precious brother Chris, please Be RICHLY Encouraged!

    ChrisE
  • Chris - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Thank you brother ChrisE, I was afraid that I did understand you, as you wrote about this in your comments.

    Re: 1 Corinthians 1:17. I believe that Paul "was not sent to baptize", as his calling & ministry was specifically to the preaching of the Gospel & for the establishing of assemblies of believers particularly among the Gentiles, to whom he was called. However, he did baptize Crispus ( 1 Corinthians 1:14, Acts 18:8) & Gaius ( Romans 16:23), & others, such as the household of Stephanus ( 1 Corinthians 1:16), though this seemed not to be the thrust of his ministry. So the fact that he did baptize (& I doubt if we could interpret the word to be 'baptize with the Spirit'), it must prove that water baptism was still performed as prescribed by the Lord in Matthew 28:19. How else would you read this?

    I can understand where Ephesians 4:5 & 1 Corinthians 12:13 (as examples given by you) refer to baptism by the Spirit, however, the other references ( Colossians 2:12; Galatians 3:27; & Romans 6:3-4) clearly imply that believers were baptized in water. So yes, I see two baptisms: one for identification & the other, for bringing into the Body of Christ & infilling.

    In your mind, would Scriptures such as Matthew 28:18; Acts 8:13; Acts 8:36; Acts 9:18; Acts 10:47,48; Acts 16:15; Acts 16:33; Acts 18:8; Acts 19:5; & Acts 22:16, be speaking of Spirit baptism? I ask, as I've attempted with great difficulty to reinterpret those verses to mean anything other than immersion in water. Yes, there is the ONE Baptism that is important, that from the Spirit, yet the Scripture is replete with examples of water baptism following repentance as an act of identification. Now if I could find a verse to show the annulment of it, I would be forced to re-think this matter. Thank you for sharing those thoughts brother.
  • GRACE_ambassador {ChrisE} - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Precious brother Chris, I appreciate your Great discussion with me. I have posted for several years, and you are The Very First to consider/discuss these things. The rest have just written me off as confused or a heretic (denying Acts 2:38). So, in my understanding of (NOT denying) it:

    I believe Paul "did baptize some" during God's Transition from Law (with water) to HIS PURE GRACE (Without water!). Most think that the great commission to the Twelve apostles of Israel, is 'exactly the same' as the commission to Paul, the apostle of the Gentiles. This does not make sense since CHRIST told the Twelve THEY "WERE SENT"

    to baptize, while CHRIST told Paul he "WAS NOT SENT to baptize." {the same thing?}

    I cannot reconcile that for today, because God Gave Paul A 'Different' Program, The Revelation Of The MYSTERY, With The Gospel Of GRACE, And the "commission of Reconciliation" Because of CHRIST's Finished Work on The Cross!

    ( Romans 16:25) ( Colossians 1:20) ( 2 Corinthians 5:17-21) + ( 2 Corinthians 6:2)

    Thus, I believe This "Hid In God" Revelation ( Ephesians 3:9) Must Be:

    Rightly Divided ( 2 Timothy 2:15) From "Things That DIFFER!":

    Many 'assume' The Gospel Of GRACE was Immediately preached after the cross, but

    closer Prayerful/Careful examination reveals:

    1) LAW was preached, obeyed, and taught to "thousand of Jewish believers"

    ( Matthew 28:19-20) Notice: Christ Specifically Said "teaching them TO OBSERVE ALL things I HAVE COMMANDED you" - one of them was Matthew 23:1-3, Correct?

    2) Water baptized Jewish believers OBEYED ALL CHRIST's Commands, SOLD EVERYTHING, And were "zealous of The LAW," even as late as Acts 21:20!

    3) IF the great commission IS FOR US today, then I see NO ONE "obeying it as these were!"

    Thus, Chris, I just cannot reconcile LAW "being Exactly THE SAME as" GRACE ( Romans 11:6)

    More 'available' on church birthday, and The ONE Baptism {a 'verse for annulment of water'?} "study" of today, IF you wish... Thanks Again, and Be Well, Precious brother!
  • Chris - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Page 2.

    Re: observance of the Law. Matthew 23:1-3, "All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not." The Scribes & Pharisees who "sat in Moses' seat" were certainly not representative of Moses' giving of the Law nor of its proper application, but the Lord spoke of obedience to it in respect to the Law that was given & not with the pharisaical 'heavy burdens' they placed on the people. And to this, the Lord attested in Matthew 15:1-9, that they transgressed God's Command by their traditions. So, I believe that the Commands of Christ were none of these, but the True Law of God & that which Jesus gave to His disciples: that of love, humility, sacrifice, service, etc. The things which the religious leaders knew little or nothing about.

    Then, was the accusation against Paul correct (in Acts 21:18-21)? We're not told, nor does Paul refute it. But as far as Paul's consideration of the Law in the Light of the Cross, we can understand that he believed that under the New Covenant, the Old was abrogated ( Romans 7:4-6), as maybe seen in Acts 21:21, in the accusation of him forsaking "Moses'" (Law). Whether the Jew as under the Law & the Gentile was not, once both came INTO Christ (that mystery), they were released from the law & dead works by faith in Jesus & water baptism was the declaration of that breaking away & cleaving to the Risen One. Water baptism was the ultimate defining witness of a hell-bound soul now entering into a life with Christ. Why should this apply to a Jewish convert & not a Gentile, I cannot find in the Scriptures; considering that Gentiles were also baptised in water in the NT. May the Lord guide us in this matter.
  • Chris - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Page 1.

    Brother ChrisE. Yes, I do enjoy a good discussion/debate as I'm always interested to learn of other's viewpoints & why they have developed & settled on a particular belief. Even with this matter on Baptism, I know that my grandfather forbad his wife & four sons to be baptized in water & in fact, also rejected observing the Lord's Supper, as both being not applicable after the establishment of the Church & the end of the apostolic age. You may not see it in the same way, but I was too young ( 4 yrs old) to be able to question him about it, as he passed away soon after.

    So, I don't consider you as one "confused or an heretic", but one having arrived at these conclusions based on things that I don't see in Scripture; e.g. the requirement of the initial Jewish baptisms being first "brought into the Israeli priesthood". I won't deal with "Paul not being sent to baptize" matter, as he stated that he DID baptize others (even some that he couldn't recall), but I believe that baptism wasn't the thrust of his ministry, probably leaving it to others after delivering the Gospel & ensuring that the convert was ushered into Church follow-up.

    As far as the "Revelation of the Mystery", as Ephesians 3:2-7 declares, that the mystery was "That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel" (v6), that which was unknown in ages past.
  • Rick - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Hi Chris A lot of the Scriptures shown about baptism in Context of usage is spiritual in regards to holy spirit not water,and to say implied doesn't really hold any water. In Ephesians 4:5, no water, The context of 1 Corinthians 1:15-17 is baptism in Christ, so I don't see it as a condition to be born again. When Paul was born again in Acts 9:17+18 in verse 18 the word baptize is baptizo which can be translated on or in depending on context. Many of these verses which talks about baptism don't mention water. In Acts 15:1 there were men from Judea that were teaching unless you are circumsized you can't be saved, works of the law and that turned into an intense dispute. Acts 15:1-10 so I see where that applied also to water only it wasn't realized until later. That's my understanding It Is Written
  • Free - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Hi dear sister's and brother's in Christ.

    What is sentral in baptism by water, can also be a good speaking for your self. Like a clear conscience for God and them self. He the Lord understand everything anyway. I know ppl who cry out day and night becouse they dont think they have got the Holy Spirit. And I speak of ppl who never have being other places than in the society with christian ppl. So how does this come? God bless like the father and the lost son. And like in the wind who blowed over the earth yesterday or day before.

    It is the promise of the word we depend on. Is it not?

    Nowone is lost if they dont see for them self if they are baptised or not. Is it then a feeling_ Or is it a stage of living with God?

    Can some ppl tell, who have the Holy Spirit? Yes.

    All ppl can be useful for the Lord Him Self. Becouse He just look over who is ready today! Right now! It can be you or me or the youngest person in society. Becouse that person is ready to work right now.

    I'll remembering in my first dayes with the Lord and the Easter came, ashamed. The doorway was closedown and it was like Jesus taking a holiday. Do He realy? Becouse everyone needed to be for them self's. At that stage i said that i can sit here if someone in the village need God. Ill be here and help them out. But it dont fall in good mudd. Nowone was willingly to offer Easter time for other than them self. My heart cryed out.

    Remember it is a lot of work, and different work in the life with God. And ill pray that the society will fully be healed. And stop looking for the Holy Spirit in each other. But love and lift each other up instead to bring sorrow in heart to other ppl.

    Becouse we all have the promise of the word.

    I'll belive that everyone who believes in the Word and belive that Jesus is Gods son and that He died and stand up the third day. Everyone have the holy spirit. Some day clear and som day like in shadow. Becouse we are in the flesh. But God is not. God bless you all in Jesus name.
  • Chris - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Hello Rick. I agree with your understanding of Ephesians 4:5. The 1 Corinthians 1:15-17 passage, I believe speaks of a water baptism, as in almost all cases of baptism, it refers to water baptism (e.g. Romans 6:3-5; 1 Peter 3:21; Colossians 2:12). Where the "hands of the apostle" were laid upon someone that is clearly a reference to an impartation of the Spirit (Spirit baptism) ( Acts 8:14-17; Acts 9:17; Acts 19:1-6). Or, as in Ephesians 4:5 (as you showed), plus 1 Corinthians 12:13. And yes, re-birth happens after one repents, believes, calling upon the Lord Jesus - there is no Grace communicated through water baptism.

    Indeed, Acts 9:17,18 mentions the word 'baptism' & it could go either way, though I see it as Paul being water baptized. And then Acts 22:12-16, Paul rehearses the same event & speaks of him being instructed to "arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord". Do you see water baptism here or is still Spirit baptism?

    The Acts 15 account, was about those men from Judaea & the believing sect of the Pharisees (v5), who wanted Gentile converts to be first circumcised & to keep the Law before they could be saved. But the decision was that neither was required (by the New Covenant in the Blood), except "that they (the Gentiles) abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood." (v20). Those are my thoughts anyway, in response. The Lord bless you.
  • Rick - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Chris In 1 Corinthians 12:13 we were all baptised by one spirit, something to keep in mind baptism by spirit is totally internal baptism by water is external, that being said if someone wants to baptise in water o.k. to me it's not a debate. That being said God Bless In His Service
  • GRACE_ambassador {ChrisE} - In Reply - 2 years ago
    spongeRick: "When Paul was born again in Acts 9:17+18 in verse 18 the word baptize is baptizo which can be translated on or in depending on context."

    The spongeChrisE understanding It Is Written - Did you mean Acts 9:17-18? :)

    Q: Was not Paul saved ON the road to Damascus ( Acts 9:3-6), By God's GRACE And MERCY ( Titus 3:4-7), thus making him OUR "pattern" Under GRACE ( 1 Timothy 1:16), and The Body Of CHRIST, 'Beginning The ONE NEW man' {a 'Different GRACE Entity' than the LAW assembly at Pentecost?}, with Paul ( Ephesians 2:15)?

    Because, IF the "pattern" is to have a Spirit-filled Jew to HEAL our infirmities, and lay hands on us for the filling of The Holy Spirit, Many are not going to be saved, eh?

    Notice, Christ Told the 'hesitant' Ananias, "...he IS a CHOSEN vessel Unto ME...," not, "he WILL BE chosen..." thus already "saved Earlier, ON the road to Damascus," Correct?

    Thus, my understanding is "faith cometh by hearing, and hearing By The WORD Of God,"

    hearing The Gospel Of GRACE, believing It, And being BAPTIZED 'BY' The Holy Spirit Into The {Spiritual} Body Of CHRIST, Seated In Heaven, In the twinkling of an eye," Correct?

    Of course, we could discuss Further the confusing 'Mixture' of being "Baptized by Christ, WITH The {Filling Of The} Holy Spirit, for power, signs, and wonders, as at the Pentecostal {LAW assembly}, compared to Paul's:

    ONE {Spiritual} Baptism 'BY' The Holy Spirit For Identification with/Into The Body Of CHRIST {GRACE assembly}, Thus, Fitting MUCH Better With OUR "pattern," Paul, eh?

    I never thought Great Bible study would "sponging together" with a brother :)
  • Rick - In Reply - 2 years ago
    ChrisE I'm sorry was not following conversation correctly, My understanding verse 5 called saul out, verse 6 saul trembling ]the word is tremo absolute terror, this guy went from no fear bold as brass to absolute terror because his head is saying whats going on but still says what do you want me to do. No where in that whole conversion did the lord beat him up or condemn him, why because he was doing it out of ignorance.

    Saul is three days no sight still going what just happened. The lord says to Ananias by the spirit go see Saul very specific instructions. Saul is not born again yet in verse 15 the lord is telling Ananias by the spirit He is a chosen vessel unto me, the lord is saying I have called him out and chose Ananias to minister to saul.

    In verse 17 Ananias walks in putting his hands on him to comfort him and says brother saul another comfort, next words the lord that appeared unto you sent me another comfort because saul is still in shock so to speak hath sent me for thee to receive thy sight and be filled with Holy Ghost or spirit.

    That's when he was healed physically and was baptized spiritually. I don't believe laying on hands is always necessary I believe that's specific instructions given by the spirit in a specific situation. That's my understanding In His Service
  • Rick - In Reply - 2 years ago
    ChrisE Another point in Acts 9:17 Ananias put his hands on him and said brother Saul he would have never said that unless God showed him by revelation that he was going to believe and receive also what a tremendous greeting of love, because if I were Saul I would still have been in absolute shock. So God had to comfort Ananias so Ananias could bless Saul absolutely incredible the way God worked. That word Filled is pletho which is to make full internally, its good stuff. In His Service
  • Rick - In Reply - 2 years ago
    ChrisE We could get into some really good stuff but this isn't the place or format. In His Service
  • Rick - In Reply - 2 years ago
    ChrisE I agree its all good. In His Service
  • Paul - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Nope, it's clearly talking about water baptism: Link - beware of those who make excuses and creative rationalizations in effort to disobey God.
  • GRACE_ambassador {ChrisE} - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Precious friend Paul. There is no need to "make excuses and creative rationalizations in effort to disobey God." There is however A Great Need To "study God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided, to Be APPROVED Unto Him" ( 2 Timothy 2:15), Correct?

    Since water adherents say "God Says YES, water IS for today," then do they All not have THE Severe Problem of "deciding" WHICH of the following is "obeying God"?:

    1) believe AND be baptized {i.e. immersion to contact their Christ's blood}?

    2) immersion with a symbolic interpretation?

    3) immersion ONCE in the "name of Jesus?

    4) immersion THRICE in the "name of the Triune Godhead?

    5) immersion {whether once or thrice} for "membership" in their traditional assembly?

    6) sprinkling water on babies inducting them into religion washing away their original sin?

    7) sprinkling water on babies inducting them into some covenant?

    8) sprinkling water on babies inducting them into their parent's custody that they promise to raise them right? {into Mass Confusion?}

    9) sprinkling water on babies, admitting that their ritual is UNscriptural, but "we do it anyway, because it is OUR tradition!"?

    10) pouring water onto babies or adults for Whatever traditional reasonreligion "can come up with"?

    Q: How is this any different than the "carnal DIVISION" that Paul addresses in 1 Corinthians 1:9-17 = "I am a catholic, methodist, presbyterian, baptist, etc..." Carnality Certainly Cannot "Be PLEASING/APPROVED By God," and OBEYING Him, Correct?

    Conclusion: According to All Scriptures {see my postings to Clayton, Chris And Rick}, Prayerfully And Carefully "studied Rightly Divided, being in UNITY" ( Ephesians 4:3-6) With "God's ONE Baptism, BY The Holy Spirit," showing God's AnswerOf "NOwaterFor Today,"IMMEDIATELY And Absolutely VanquishesALL THIS Confusion Of ContradictionsInto OBLIVION! Correct?

    Have a good day.
  • Rick - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Paul Brother disregard last comment, not correctly communicated. In His Service
  • Rick - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Paul I read that not all the verses used in the context of usage and where used it does not say water, no excuses or creative rationalizations I was born again and never was water baptized, but that being said if that what someone wants to do O.K. In His Service
  • Rick - In Reply - 2 years ago
    ChrisE Please allow me to exercise my sense of humour, I'm trying to sponge up everything your sharing. LOL
  • GRACE_ambassador {ChrisE} - In Reply - 2 years ago
    spongeRick instead of spongeBob? lol
  • Brenda Dixon - In Reply - 2 years ago
    John in the dispensation of LAW spoke of "one" who is to come, whose shoe lacthet he is unworthy to unloose. He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost ,and fire. When Christ came he ALLOWED John to BAPTIZE Him, showing the need for REPENTANCE. John was preaching and also baptizing UNTO repentance.

    Christ "the promised redeemer" commissioned that this be done in his name. By now baptizing in His name, He fulfilled it in the LAW which was the schoolmaster that could not save, BUT, through his name "Jesus" REMISSION (removal) of sins is now given.

    There are TWO dispensations, LAW and GRACE. Grace abounds. He came to FULFILL the LAW and SHOW us that THROUGH HIM -GREATER things WILL and ONLY can be done (GRACE). This He did and showed his disciples(followers of Christ). (KJV Acts 2:38) Repent and be baptized..; Galatians 3:26-27.

    Please note that we are now living in the dispensation of Grace. For this Christ came to set things in order and give unto men the PLAN of SALVATION
  • Rick - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Brenda Nice addition I'm soaking it up so to speak. I.E. I agree
  • Rick - In Reply - 2 years ago
    ChrisE When you consider that the Apostle Paul was given everything there was to know by revelation or the spirit showing him concerning The Body if Christ and water baptism is not mentioned once, I agree with you.
  • Gerald - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Dave, Food for thought here are some scriptures to think about: Acts: 8:35-38, Acts: 10:47, and Acts: 19



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