Bible Discussion Thread

 
  • Jimbob - 9 months ago
    Blessings to all who seek His Truth.

    I want to start this by saying thank you to whoever started this King James Bible site, The Holy Spirit was with you.

    Many here do not believe the KJB is the Inspired Word of God. If you are one of those people then I ask that you please google this (Truth is Christ) on youtube and watch some of the videos that show Amazing patterns, and facts that only happen in the King James Bible and could only be done by God Himself! PROOF that God Inspired the KJB! It is truly Amazing!

    If you are seeking the Truth on whether God preserved His Word in a book for this generation, (and you should be) if you are honestly seeking Truth, you will find it in (Truth is Christ) on youtube.

    If you don't think the KJB is the Inspired Word of God then that's even more reason for you to watch these videos because you are being deceived by words of men.

    Leave a comment on your thoughts if you seek the Truth and watch these videos, you will not be disappointed but much more importantly you will find the Truth!

    God Bless all you seek His Truth.
  • David0921 - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Hello Jimbob,

    I really appreciate your reverence and passion for the Word of God, the Bible. And when it comes to the original languages and the manuscripts used by the KJV translators, they were and are indeed without error. God has indeed protected His Word throughout time in that sense. I also deeply respect the attitude of the translators in keeping as closely as possible to a word-for-word translation into English of the original languages; this is demonstrated by their use of italics when adding words to assist in the flow of the language.

    The KJV is not a paraphrase Bible in any sense whatsoever. I personally would not own or consult a paraphrase Bible EVER; if we want to consult a commentary, let it be identified as such as it is the work and understanding of men. A paraphrase Bible is not the Word of God in any sense whatsoever.

    The KJV Bible is certainly by far the best translation in the English language available today. And God has graciously provided tools such as interlinear versions and concordances keyed to the KJV so that a teacher or serious student of the Bible can check out the translation of any verse in the KJV using the original Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic.

    But the KJV is not without any error of any kind. And there are certain verses and words where the translators might have done a better job and possibly used a legitimate alternate word or phrase. And there are at least a couple of instances, of which I am aware, where they translated a singular word in the plural and vice versa. There is no doubt that the KJV translators were at least to some degree influenced by the doctrines of the their church of that day. These discrepancies are very few and far between as I understand from several faithful Bible teachers whom I trust.

    That said, when I read the KJV I am convinced that I am indeed sitting at the feet of God Himself, knowing that what I am reading is from the Mouth of God Himself. And I can always check out the translation.
  • Jimbob - In Reply - 9 months ago
    David0921

    I have one question for you David if you don't mind answering it.

    You think God preserved His Word only in the Hebrew and Greek manuscripts yet God graciously provided tools such as the Strongs Concordance to double check the meaning of words in the original languages.

    Question: Why would God preserve the manuscripts but not preserve His Word in a translation for the people living in the world during the last generation?

    That makes absolutely no sense to me. Nothing is impossible with God!

    (Truth is Christ) will show you God preserved His Word in the KJB, If you will check it out.

    I pray you do David.

    May God pour Blessings upon you.
  • David0921 - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Jimbob,

    I really can not answer that question because I would not want to speculate regarding the mind of God.

    And as I indicated there are a few but very few instances where the translators could perhaps have used an alternate word to fit the context, and at least a couple of instances where a plural word was translated singular and vice versa.

    I do believe however that God in His wisdom and mercy gave the translators a deep respect for the Word of God and caused them to produce an exceptionally faithful word for word translation, and not a paraphrase version which I would suggest is an affront to the Holiness of the Word of God and should never be looked upon as such. And God has also guided men to provided the tools necessary to check out the KJV translation.

    So we do have the VERY WORD OF GOD at our disposal for anyone with any literal capacity.

    Another thing that we must keep in mind is that God Himself must open our understanding and lead us into truth, as we search His Word comparing scripture with scripture using the principles that God lays down in His Word.

    And furthermore, God does not "save" based on our knowledge of Scripture. We can be a very knowledgeable theologian and yet be unsaved. And God can save an infant in their mother's womb with no knowledge of scripture whatsoever.

    The evidence of our salvation is not our KNOWLEDGE OF the Bible. The evidence is our ATTITUDE TOWARD the Bible and our earnest desire to be obedient to what God might reveal to us in His Word, both in our doctrine and in our practice. God's salvation of the Ninevites through the preaching of Jonah is a beautiful example of exactly that.
  • Jimbob - In Reply - 9 months ago
    David0921 thank you for your reply.

    You said you don't want to speculate regarding the mind of God, yet you go on to say "I do believe however that God in His wisdom and mercy gave the translators a deep respect for the Word of God and caused them to produce an exceptionally faithful word for word translation" (a deep respect?) If the Holy Ghost was involved then whatever was translated was translated PERFECTLY! Why would God give them a "deep respect" for His Word when He could use holy men of God who spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost? Is anything to hard for God? Does God make mistakes?

    David are you not speculating in making the statements you are making?

    ( 2 Pet 1:19-21) If these holy men of God who were moved by the Holy Ghost to bring the prophecy of the scripture from old time were the translators, and yes I do believe that to be the Truth. Then we do have a PERFECT Inspired Word of God today.

    God would not preserve the Hebrew and Greek manuscripts and then just stop at that and leave the rest up to men to translate, and make mistakes, would He?

    You said "God has also guided men to provide the tools necessary to check out the KJV translation"

    God did provide the tools necessary to check out the KJ translation so don't you think that translation would be His pure Words?

    The only Bible that can be used with the Strong's Concordance to check the original meaning of the words in the Hebrew and Greek language is the KJB, there is a reason for that!

    God does not make mistakes, God is not the author of confusion.

    EVERY WORD OF GOD IS PURE! EVERY WORD!

    ( Ps 12:6-7) (Pro 30:5-6)

    In ( Jn 14:23) "If a man love me he will keep ((my words))"

    I will say again (Truth is Christ) on youtube is pretty much proof God preserved His Words in the KJB only, if you or anyone else seeking the Truth would spend a little time to do some research and watch some of the videos on this site!

    (Truth is Christ) Watch and you will see.

    Blessings to you David.
  • Frankie J - In Reply - 9 months ago
    to all who commented

    Friends,

    In Peter stating "no prophecy of the Scripture", then explains what he's referring to in the next verse, "but holy men of God spake as they were " MOVED by the HOLY GHOST "

    He's speaking of the Holy Spirit voice speaking in our hearts, 2Cor 4:6, which "Treasure we have in these earthen vessels", that Peter refers to 2Peter 1:19 "a light that shines in a dark place" 1John 2:27 it's the sure Word of prophecy This is how they received the faith that we are earnestly to contend for Jude 1:3 believing that it is He speaking to us, "the Word of Faith" that's near us even in our hearts & in our mouth, that Paul preached. Rom 10:17 the Living Word, Christ, not the letter, but His Spirit.

    For the testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of prophecy Rev 19:10 by which the Scriptures were received & written , 2 Tim 3:16

    It's the Spirit of Grace appearance, refer to in John 1:9, that Peter is referring to as the sure Word, for He will speak the same meaning of the Scriptures to all, which He inspired. John 16:13

    For all that would submit to Him, He will bring into the unity of the Faith of the Son of God as it was in the beginning

    Acts 4:32

    This present "thread" is an witness against all of you of His lack of inspiration among you,

    Given forth for no other reason, but to awaken you to the reality of your condition, that you may recover from her cup.

    Rev 17:2-5

    In love & truth
  • Chris - In Reply - 9 months ago
    It would be interesting Jimbob, to learn how many Bible-reading, Bible-believing Christians actually understand 2 Peter 1:19-21 as you do. Not speaking for others, & having addressed this point with you before, I reiterate that the "holy men of God" clearly refers to the OT prophets & writers that were inspired & moved by God's Spirit to pen these holy words. Nothing at all to do with the KJB translators or any translation work, simply because of context of the passage & the timeline (i.e. between the first recording & then the translation work into other languages).

    This important understanding shows us, that when even a slight deviation from the meaning of the text is taken, we can then justify many other things. No doubt the KJB translators were greatly helped by the Spirit & these men were diligent in their business, but there has to be differences in, say the English versions, to the original Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek texts. When texts are modified, omitted, or added to, then there are a number of reasons for that, chiefly that the 'older' manuscripts were being used in translation & not the more reliable later Textus Receptus (from which we get our KJB & some others). GBU.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Hi Brother Chris.

    2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. I also believe this clearly refers to the OT prophets & writers that were inspired & moved by God's Spirit to pen these holy words.

    The example you have given in these two Scriptures: Genesis 24:16 and Isaiah 7:14

    . "Virgin" is in both references as given by the KJB translators, yet in Hebrew the words are different: the first one is 'bethulah' & the other 'almah'. Why did the translators not give different English words for each of those verses, but just used 'virgin'?

    And also, Giannis explanation; "The Hbr should be translated as " young woman", not "virgin", that is why there is a difference from Genesis 24:16. This is how it is always written in the Hebrew Bibles (Tanakh).

    I have the word in the Hebrew as 'almah'. (but dogmatic). meaning "Virgin. As Giannis said, Matthew follows the Septuagint text of the Old Testament, and in the Septuagint, it is written "the virgin."

    Some has used this "SO CALLED DISCREPENCY" to attack the virgin birth and a person like me wouldn't know how to defend it being that I don't know Hebrew or Greek outside of helps and research.

    So, that causes me to leave off the translations drama and go to the prophet and prophecy in Isaiah 7:14 and giving thought to what 2 Peter 1:21 is saying and its meaning.

    In Isaiah 7:11 the Lord prompts Ahaz to "Ask thee a sign of the LORD thy God; ask it either in the depth, or in the height above.

    Vs 13 God draws the attention to the house of David.

    Vs 14 God gives them a sign. "Therefore, the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son.

    This wouldn't be much of a sign if it was a mere young woman. However, it draws one's attention if it is a virgin being mentioned.

    God's truth can be found even if the translation or our ability to translate is imperfect.

    God bless
  • Chris - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Thank you bro S. Spencer. I'll keep this short as I'm leaving shortly for a few weeks vacation but will try & keep up-to-date with the discussions given here. I agree that the use of 'virgin' did indicate a Divine sign rather than just using 'young woman', yet in those days, a young woman (or, otherwise translated, a maiden) already indicated the pure state of the girl. So a reader then would have understood that whether 'virgin' or 'maiden/young girl' was used, these words would speak of her purity. But yes, using 'virgin' seems to give the Divine Act more focus & emphasis. Giannis' answer was however, informative as to which text the NT translators referred to in their use of 'virgin'. Blessings.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Thanks Brother,

    You are absolutely right!

    Enjoy your vacation.

    May the Lord bless your trip.
  • Jimbob - In Reply - 9 months ago
    S Spencer

    Hello Spencer its good to here from you, although not addressed to me I think I'll respond to your comment.

    You said "I also believe this clearly refers to the OT prophets and writers that were inspired and moved by God's Spirit to pen these holy words". These holy words ( 2 Pet 1:19-21) were penned by Peter whose book is in the New Testament not the OT.

    I think you may have just mis spoke on that one Spencer.

    You and brother Chris have said this verse ((clearly)) refers to the OT prophets. Would you please show, (using scripture) how you get this verse (clearly) refers to the OT prophets? I have not seen that yet.

    If we start reading the book of 2 Peter from verse #1 we can (clearly) see ( 2 Pet 1:1-4) this chapter is prophecy for this time period as well as for the people of the time it was written.

    ( 2 Pet 1:5-10) These verses are (clearly) prophecy written for us today. The first verse says ( 2 Pet 1:1) "Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, TO THEM THAT HAVE OBTAINED LIKE PRECIOUS FAITH with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" This is prophecy for us today! (Those who have obtained precious faith in Jesus Christ)

    ( 2 Pet 1:15) "Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease ((to have these things always in remembrance))

    TO HAVE THESE THINGS ALWAYS! This is prophecy for us today as well as for those who have lived after Peter's decease, and before us.

    When Peter wrote this book Christ had already been Risen for more than 50 years.

    Why would Peter be writing this about the OT prophets at that time? And here we are reading it today. They only had the Hebrew manuscripts at that time ( 2 Pet 1:20) Tells us "that no (prophecy) (of the scripture) is of any private interpretation". ((OF THE SCRIPTURE)) We have that scripture today, do we not?

    It is not of private interpretation because holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

    The KJB IS INSPIRED BY GOD!

    Blessings to you Spencer.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Hi Jimbob.

    Without reading all of what you and Chris discussed, I've looked over what you have given me.

    I believe the hang up is a portion of verse 15 you singled out. ( TO HAVE THESE THINGS ALWAYS IN REMEMBRANCE)

    So I tracked backwards to see what " These things" are, that Peter is talking about. Start at verse 13.

    Here's how that went.

    2 Peter 1:13 Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in REMEMBRANCE;

    2 Peter 1:12Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in REMEMBRANCE OF THESE THINGS,

    2 Peter 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do THESE THINGS, ye shall never fall:

    2 Peter 1:9. But he that lacketh THESE THINGS....

    2 Peter 1:8. For if THESE THINGS be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    If we keep on backtracking we come to what these things are in verses five through verse seven. I will highlight them with caps.

    2 Peter 1:5-7.

    And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith VIRTUE; and to virtue KNOWLEDGE;

    And to knowledge TEMPERANCE; and to temperance PATIENCE; and to patience GODLINESS;

    And to godliness BROTHERLY KINDNESS; and to brotherly kindness CHARITY.

    (For if THESE THINGS be in you), and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Jimbob I'm not sure if I grasp you but it seems Peter is talking about what accompanies salvation.

    God has given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: that by these we might be partakers of the divine nature,

    verses 3 and 4.

    This doesn't seem to be talking about any writings unless I am missing your point.

    God bless.
  • Jimbob - In Reply - 9 months ago
    S Spencer thank you for your reply.

    You are missing my point. As we look at ( 2 Pet 1:19-21) you and brother Chris are saying the holy men of God in v21 are (clearly) the Old Testament prophets and writers of the OT. If that were true that would mean the (prophecy) spoken of in all three of these verses was the Hebrew manuscripts, Right? For readers today that would mean those verses are history, not prophecy!

    Yet the rest of the chapter IS (prophecy) that applies to us for today.

    The subject of these three verses is (prophecy)

    ( 2 Pet 1:19) a more sure word of (prophecy).

    ( 2 Pet 1:20) no (prophecy) of the scripture.

    ( 2 Pet 1:21) the (prophecy) came not in old time by the will of man.

    Then as we look at the rest of the chapter we see that it is also (prophecy) that applies to us for today.

    If you are right then this chapter is prophecy for the time we live in now all except for verses 19,20, and 21 which would have very little value to the readers of today. But if you are wrong (and you are on this) then these verses are telling us the (prophecy) of the scripture (the prophecy meant in these verses would be the New Testament, not the Old Testament. and the holy men of God were the translators of the KJB, not the OT prophets) came not in old time by the will of man but holy men of God who spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

    That would mean ( 2 Pet 1:19-21) is also (prophecy) for us today, it is showing us how we got the (prophecy) of the scripture that we have in the KJB today, not how the OT prophets got the Hebrew manuscripts which would be history for us today.

    History is not prophecy! (prophecy) is prediction, a foreteller.

    Blessings to you Spencer.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Hi Jimbob,

    You said.

    ( 2 Pet 1:5-10) These verses are (clearly) prophecy written for us today. The first verse says ( 2 Pet 1:1) "Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, TO THEM THAT HAVE OBTAINED LIKE PRECIOUS FAITH with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ"

    This is prophecy for us today! End quote.

    I believe to "those that have obtained" is present tense. ( local.)

    Quoting you again.

    2 Pet 1:15

    "Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease (to have these things always in remembrance)

    TO HAVE THESE THINGS ALWAYS! This is prophecy for us today. End quote.

    I see this as Peter is writing "to them that have obtained" (In that day) When Peter die he is telling them not to forget what he told them in the previous verses.

    "be partakers of the divine nature ect...

    Let's look at 2 Peter 1:18

    "And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount."

    THEY WERE EYE WHITNESSES!

    But yet Peter says "We have also a more sure word of prophecy;

    PETER IS TALKING ABOUT WHAT IS IN HIS POSSESSION! And what energized those prophets who wrote the prophecies. THE HOLYSPIRIT. Not the will of man with his private interpretation.

    ( Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

    For the prophecy came NOT IN OLD TIME by the will of man: but holy men of God spake AS THEY were moved by the Holy Ghost.)

    2 Peter 1:20-21.

    "Not in old time" puts the time that the group (THEY) in the OT.

    That's all I have Jimbob.

    I believe you and Brother Chris have covered a great length on this and he's more adequate to debate you on this topic than I am.

    So I end it here.

    God bless.
  • Jimbob - In Reply - 9 months ago
    S Spencer thank you, I really do appreciate your time and your comments.

    I recommend you google (Truth is Christ) on youtube and watch this video

    The BIBLE in our hand is the Twoedged SWORD of His MOUTH - Clear Evidence. Or any of those videos.

    Some of them are Amazing! They show many patterns in numbers and words that only God could have created.

    May God pour out Blessings upon you Spencer.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Thanks Jimbob.

    I will take a look.

    God bless you.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Thanks for your response Jimbob.

    I will get back with you sometime after work.

    Thanks
  • Jordyn - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Jimbob:

    you're missing the point.

    mosses and the prophets was the prophecy of christ the messiah.

    those prophecies have been fulfilled, they are now history.

    nothing can be added, nothing can be taken away, they are finished, this is the gospel, christ has reconciled the world to himself, the problem is most don't believe this to be true, therefore they will die in their sin (unbelief), all other sin is covered by the blood of christ.

    god bless you!
  • Jordyn - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Jimbob:

    Can one take ONLY Mosses and the Prophets and come to TRUTH about the Kingdom of God?

    Acts 28:23 And when he had appoint them a day, there came many unto his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the Kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Mosses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

    There was no KJB or New testament; YET, one could come into the Kingdom by what was written in Mosses and the Prophets.



    I study only the KJB; BUT,

    1 John 2:27 The anointing which you have received of him ABIDETH IN YOU ...... the same anointing WILL TEACH YOU ALL THINGS ........ after all: HE IS THE WORD ............

    God Bless YOU!
  • Jimbob - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Jordyn thank you for your comment.

    Sorry but you are taking this verse out of context Jordyn. This verse doesn't say one could come into the Kingdom by what was written in Moses and the prophets.

    ( Acts 28:23)

    It says Paul testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, (which is the Torah the first five books of the Bible), and out of the prophets, this is all the prophets who have books written in the Old Testament, or in the Hebrew manuscripts.

    The word (testified) is #1263; it means to attest or protest earnestly, charge, witness, to be a witness, testify, give (evidence) bear record, be well reported of.

    Paul was pretty much preaching the kingdom of God convincing them concerning Jesus.

    The word (persuading) is #3982; it means to convince (by argument, true or false) to assent (to evidence or authority) to rely (by inward certainty) assure, believe, confidence, trust.

    Blessings to you Jordyn.
  • Frankie J - In Reply - 9 months ago
    jimbob

    Acts 28:23

    The Scriptures plainly states they were convince & brought into the Kingdom

    "both out of the law of Moses & the prophets"

    Jeremiah 31:33 Acts 17:2,3 Acts 17:11,12 Acts 18:24,28 Matt 26:54 Luke 24:25-27

    Hebrews 10:7

    Romans 1:1,2

    They taught & preach out of the OT the Gospel that was promised.

    Friend

    Sober up

  • [Comment Removed]
  • Jimbob - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Chris

    I would think every Christian who believes God preserved His Word and believes Every Word of God is pure would say ( 2 Pet 1:19-21) in context these holy men of God who were moved by the Holy Ghost to bring a ((more sure word)) of (prophecy) in old time are the translators of the KJB. This is how we got the KJB, If God preserved His Word like He promised us He would in ( Ps 12:6-7) Then ( 2 Pet 1:19-21) in context is the KJB translators who were moved by the Holy Ghost, that has Nothing to do with the OT prophets. IT IS PROPHECY.

    Most Bible-believing Christians see the New Testament as the prophecy, not the Old Testament as the prophecy.

    You said "holy men of God" clearly refers to the OT prophets".

    ( 2 Pet 1:19) "We have also a more sure word of prophecy" prophecy #4394; it means prediction (scriptural or other) prophesying.

    That more sure word of prophecy is the Word of God, its the Bible we have today. If what you are saying is true then that would mean the more sure word of prophecy spoken of here is the Hebrew manuscripts, or the Old Testament!

    You must know that's not accurate Chris.

    The (prophecy) is the subject in these verses, it is in context, ( 2 Pet 1:20) "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation".

    not just prophecy but ((prophecy of the scripture)) (scripture) is #1124; it means a document, i.e. holy Writ (or its contents or a statement in it) scripture.

    These verses are very clear that to say the OT prophets are being spoken of here, is completely out of context!.

    Again if any are seeking the Truth (Truth is Christ) on youtube will show you how the KJB is the perfect, Inspired Word of God.

    Thank you for your comment Chris but I am not the one who's wrong on this one friend, you are.

    Blessings to you and to all who seek His Truth.
  • Chris - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Thanks Jimbob. Our completely different understanding of those verses is clear, so others can decide as to what they speak of. But to your statement, "Most Bible-believing Christians see the New Testament as the prophecy, not the Old Testament as the prophecy", I guess I must be the odd-man out. I see the OT as the prophecy given & the NT as prophecy fulfilled, or yet to be fulfilled as the case may be.

    Then to 2 Peter 2:19, "We have also a more sure word of prophecy". This word from Peter refers back to verses 16-18. Here, he affirms that what he is sharing about Jesus' Coming & Glory & also from his presence at Jesus' Transfiguration, were not the result of fables (maybe even from human imaginations), but his words to them were confirmation of the prophecies of old concerning Jesus. And this "sure word of prophecy" gave a double affirmation to his readers because he (Peter) was an immediate witness to Jesus' Life & Words, to His Glory & Power. So, the prophecy of Jesus was given in the OT, but Peter was a living witness to that prophecy, now fulfilled, having now a "sure word" to give them, to which they can't deny. So, I see no reference in this passage to "the Bible we have today". Blessings.
  • Jimbob - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Chris thank you for your reply.

    You said "I see the OT as prophecy given, and the NT as prophecy fulfilled, or yet to be fulfilled as the case may be".

    ( 2 Pet 1:19-21) was written to be prophecy for us today. ( 2 Pet 1:19) starts out saying "WE have also a more sure word of prophecy". ((WE HAVE)) Every Word of God is pure, so WE HAVE a more sure word of prophecy today.

    ( 2 Pet 1:20) Is Peter saying here "that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation" only to the people alive at the time he was writing those words? How many (at that time) could have possibly read those words compared to those words being read today in the KJB? IT IS PROPHECY FOR TODAY!

    You and many others give the power of the translation of the KJB to the men who did the translation.

    This is a major error Chris, God was in complete control of His Word being preserved for ever.

    If we believe the Word of God is the Truth , then how can we say God didn't preserve His Word as He promised us in ( Ps 12:6-7)

    ( Ps 12:6) even tells us the pure words of the LORD are purified (seven times) A time is 1 year, so seven times would = 7 years, the time it took to finish the translation of the KJB.

    These verses in 2 Peter are showing us a fulfillment of prophecy from the Old Testament.

    ( 2 Pet 1:19-21) Is confirmation of that promise being fulfilled and how God used holy men to preserve His Words for ever.

    If the Word of God is Truth, (and it is) then you are misinterpreting those verses Chris.

    (Truth is Christ) will help you see this Truth if you seek it.

    Here's a few verses about prophecy in ( Rev 1:3) ( Rev 22:7) ( Rev 22:18-19)

    Blessings to you.
  • Chris - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Page 1.

    Just referring to a couple of your points Jimbob. 2 Peter 1:20. When Peter declared this Truth to his readers, the prophecies 'of old' were written within the Torah, the Prophets, & the Writings. These prophecies were available to all, though with high illiteracy levels, it's likely that the Scriptures were read, understood & explained to the common man mostly by students of the Word.

    So what Peter is stating in this verse, is that the prophecies of old, which no doubt included the aspects of Jesus' coming & Sacrifice, were true revelations from God to His appointed. These revelations were not of private interpretation (Gk. unloosing, unpacking): they weren't written as from man's understanding of them nor from man's determination, but by the 'moving of the Holy Spirit upon them'.

    So the point in these verses is not of "how many could have read those words compared to those being read today in the KJB", but from where did those words find their source, their inspiration & their validity to those then & now. Nothing at all pointing to the KJB in these verses or any of the verses you've cited now & previously as supposedly referring to the KJB as one having "pure words...purified seven times". Onto Page 2.
  • Jimbob - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Chris thanks for your response.

    You said "When Peter declared this Truth to his readers". At the time Peter wrote these 2 Epistles it was around 60 AD. How far could the reach of hearing those words possibly be in 60 AD when we look at the size and population of the whole world? Chris these books are prophecy for us today. WE ARE HIS READERS!

    You also said "These revelations were not of private interpretation (Gk. unloosing, unpacking) they weren't written as from man's determination, but by the "moving of the Holy Spirit upon them". I'm not sure what you mean here (Gk. unloosing, unpacking) but as for the Old Testament prophets being moved by the Holy Spirit? Can you provide verses as proof the OT prophets were moved by the Holy Spirit?

    God spoke directly to the Old Testament prophets Chris. The words "Thus saith the LORD" show up 415 times.

    In 60 AD why would Peter be concerned about telling the people (at that time) that the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man; but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost? They did already have the Hebrew manuscripts at that time, and one would think that they had complete faith and trust in them at that time.

    Read (2 Pet Ch.2) This is prophecy for us today!

    You also said "Nothing at all pointing to the KJB in these verses or any of the verses you've cited now and previously as supposedly referring to the KJB as one having pure words..purified seven times".

    I don't want to offend you Chris but I'm not sure how closely you are reading these comments!

    ( Ps 12:6-7) Clearly points to seven times in which a time is 1 year, seven times is equal to the 7 years it took to translate the KJB, there's a major reference pointing to the KJB and it also promises God will preserve His Word for ever! ( Ps 12:7) Clearly tells us God preserved His Word from this generation for ever. FOR EVER!

    see p2
  • Chris - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Page 2.

    In fact no Scripture ever points to the KJB as being the translation of the future that preserves God's Word perfectly. If one thinks that, then that person is forcing the Scriptures to point to the KJB when it doesn't.

    Ask any Hebrew or Greek reader who is fully conversant in English as well, whether his reading of the KJB accurately reflects what his language/his understanding states. There will always be words (whether words written & understood back in the distant past or English words that are deemed to follow as closely as possible to the original), that they don't accurately, nor can ever do, when translated from one language to another.

    As an example, take these two Scriptures: Genesis 24:16 and Isaiah 7:14. "Virgin" is in both references as given by the KJB translators, yet in Hebrew the words are different: the first one is 'bethulah' & the other 'almah'. Why did the translators not give different English words for each of those verses, but just used 'virgin'? Maybe it wasn't so critical for them or they couldn't discern any useful difference, but it does shows variance & imperfection in their work, however small it may be.

    I love the KJB - I only read from it; but why I don't read from others is because of the manuscripts that they refer to, where verses are changed, words added or omitted. I find that very difficult to accept, even though I'm sure that the translators were not doing it intentionally: just using manuscripts that have proven to raise conflicts & irregularities. GBU.
  • Giannis - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Hello Chris

    About Isaiah 7::14, the Hbr should be translated as " young woman", not "virgin", that is why there is a difference from Genesis 24:16. This is how it is always written in the Hebrew Bibles (Tanakh). So why did the KJB translators preferred the term virgin? Because this how it is written by Matthew in his gospel when he is referring to Isaiah's prophesy about Jesus' birth.. But Matthew follows the Septuagint text of the Old Testament, not the Masoretic. And in the Septuagint it is written "the virgin" And here comes the surprising thing. Although the KJB uses the Masoretic text for the Old Testament in this particular verse they use the Septuagint. Actually this verse is a verse where one part (Hebrews and christians) calls the others forgers. The Hebrews say the christians changed the text to fit Jesus' birth (how is that possible since the Septuagint was written 3 centuries BC?) and the christians say the Hebrews changed it later on to delete any reference to Christ. Just for information. GBU
  • Chris - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Thank you Giannis for your comprehensive comment on this. It was interesting to learn that the KJB translators used the Septuagint in reference to Matthew 1:23 (from Isaiah 7:14) instead of the Masoretic text.

  • [Comment Removed]
  • Jimbob - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Chris p2.

    You go on to say "In fact no Scripture ever points to the KJB being the translation of the future that preserves God's Word perfectly. If one thinks that, then that person is forcing the Scriptures to point to the KJB when it doesn't". Sorry Chris but that is only your opinion, you have no way to prove that statement. ( Ps 12:6) "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times". 7 years!

    (pure) #2889; it means pure (in a physical, ceremonial or moral sense) clean, sound, unadulterated. uncontaminated, morally innocent of holy.

    If you think these pure words spoken of here are the manuscripts then how do you explain ( 2 Tim 3:16) "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness'. Can we use the manuscripts for reproof today, can they correct us, can we use them for instruction in righteousness today? NO WE CANNOT!

    What about ( 2 Tim 2:15) "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth". (rightly dividing the word of truth)

    We are told to Study to shew ourselves approved unto God. Study what? Can we study the manuscripts? NO WE CANNOT!

    ( 2 Pet 1:19-21) v20 "that (no prophecy of the) (scripture) is of any private interpretation"

    The word (scripture) is #1124; it means a document, i.e. holy Writ (or its contents or a statement in it)

    ( 2 Tim 3:16) "All (scripture) is given by inspiration of God" same meaning as above. (a document)

    ( 2 Tim 2:15) "Study to shew thyself approved unto God" Again study what? We study scripture, the same scripture mentioned in ( 2 Pet 1:19-21)

    I've got a question for you Chris? If you don't believe ( Ps 12:6-7) is a promise from God to preserve His Words for the time we live in now but think the only preserved words are in the manuscripts, where are the verses to PROVE that in the Word of God?

    I don't think there are any!
  • Chris - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Once again Jimbob, thank you. I won't address each point as this can go on ad infinitum without finding agreement. Your belief is that the KJB is the Bible referred to, in the Scriptures you gave (such as in Psalm 12:6,7). This is a good example of how the Scriptures are mishandled. This passage in Psalm 12 is given to show the purity of God's Word & its everlasting nature. The mention of "silver tried in a furnacepurified seven times", shows indeed how pure & without error that Word from the LORD was - nothing at all to do with KJB translators taking seven years to produce this Bible.

    As well, those Words uttered by God will never change & will never be lost - again showing us the abiding nature of what God has spoken & given. What has now been produced centuries later is the best we have, given how documents & fragments were preserved, collected, & translated. No translation, past or present, can ever reflect perfectly what God spoke to His prophets & servants (& then their recording) - we just need to satisfy ourselves that what we read now does align in the best possible way to the texts that were gathered.

    So some turn & hold to the KJB, others reject it, even by many well-studied in biblical history & in document & text analysis, refuting our claim of the superiority of the KJB over other works, giving their preference to other versions. So to answer your last question: the "preserved" Words of God are what we have now. Preserved to the very letter? Never - but preserved in the essence of what God wants to tell us, with that Word being Spirit-generated (as it was given to the prophets of old), able to cut deep into our soul & spirit ( Hebrews 4:12).

    And as I wrote, to address each of your other points would take too long & I see no value in doing so anyway, knowing how we read the Scriptures on this matter particularly. As well, I will be on vacation for about six weeks, so thank you for your time brother & may you daily experience His blessings.
  • Jimbob - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Chris thank you for your time and a very good respectful conversation on this subject, I do enjoy them, and hopefully they will be fruitful for others who read them as well.

    I will only say one more thing Chris.

    You said "preserved in the essence of what God wanted to tell us". The way I see that is God would tell us absolutely nothing but the Truth. If God was involved in the translation (and He was) then His Words are 100% pure, sound, uncontaminated. God cannot lie and He would not give us anything that's a half truth, or errors, so everybody who reads and studies the KJB will be able to rightly divide the word of truth ( 2 Tim 2:15) ( 1 Cor 1:10)

    God Bless you brother.

    Prayers for a safe vacation.
  • David0921 - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Hello Jimbob,

    I really don't want to get back into a critical discussion with you as to your belief regarding the KJV or to impinge on your discussion with Chris. As I have in several comments stated my understanding regarding the Nature of the Bible, the KJV, and what I believe to be God's stated methodology for Bible interpretation.

    However, I am curious about your methodology for in depth Bible study:

    Have you ever used a Concordance or an interlinear based upon the KJV to do a word study of any kind in order to understand how God uses a specific Greek or Hebrew word or phrase THROUGHOUT the Bible?

    And also, can you state the principles you use for Bible interpretation and your Scriptural basis for those principles?
  • Chris - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Sorry, 2 Peter 2:19 should read as, 2 Peter 1:19.
  • Jimbob - In Reply - 9 months ago
    David0921

    Thank you David for you comment. I am having a hard time understanding how you can say "when I read the KJV I am convinced that I am indeed sitting at the feet of God Himself, knowing that what I am reading is from the mouth of God Himself'.

    David how can you say that and in the very same comment you say the KJB (which is from the mouth of God Himself) has errors?

    Do you want to see the perfection in the KJB?

    (Truth in Christ) on youtube then watch this video (The BIBLE in our hand is the Twoedged SWORD of His MOUTH -Clear Evidence!)

    Watch this video and You will see many patterns of perfection in the KJB!

    Seek the Truth David.

    God Bless.

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