Bible Discussion Thread

 
  • Jess L on John 13 - 8 months ago
    Hi. John 13:16 Jesus says, he that is sent is no greater than he that sent him. Jesus was sent from God but in another scripture, Jesus says I and the Father are 1. So how is Jesus and God one, and Jesus was sent by God?
  • Chris - In Reply on John 13 - 8 months ago
    Hi Jess L. If I might add a little to what others have shared with you, including those Scriptures for you to consider, I would include a very important chapter (John chapter 17), as Jesus' great & special prayer to His Father just prior to the events leading to His arrest & crucifixion.

    The ministry of Jesus on Earth was now completed, only the final work of redemption lay before Him. But Jesus says something interesting to His Father: "Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee" (v1), and then further adds, "O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was" (v5). To glorify means 'to bestow honor; to magnify someone's worth'. When Jesus sought His Father's glory of Himself at this point, it was what remained before Him: the culmination of His Ministry to His disciples & others & the laying down of His Life for them. To many, Jesus' death meant failure, a riddance of a thorn in their flesh, an inability to accomplish what He had promised. But He knew that He did not come to meet the whims & fancies of men, but to bring sinners into the love & fold of God ( John 10:15,16). Men would hate & reject Him, but His Father's Plan for man's redemption would be fully accomplished & in this act of sacrifice & love, both the Father & Son would be glorified & Jesus' time of glorification had arrived - not by pomp & ceremony but by sacrificial Love.

    But such love was nothing new, for God is the embodiment of Love, Mercy, Grace, & Truth. But when Jesus came to Earth, that Glory was hidden from men, that only God would be glorified in the Face of Jesus ( 2 Corinthians 4:6). But now the Glory of Jesus would also be seen by those who believe - and this Glory that was once hidden would be returned to Him - as He said, "with the glory which I had with thee before the world was". Jesus, God's Word, was within God's Person, for He 'came out from God & came forth from the Father' ( John 16:27,28).
  • S Spencer - In Reply on John 13 - 8 months ago
    Amen, Thanks, and Welcome back Brother Chris!

    God bless you.
  • Chris - In Reply on John 13 - 8 months ago
    Glad to be back. Every blessing to you & yours, brother.
  • Oseas - In Reply - 8 months ago
    Jess L on John 13

    JESUS said for the Devil: Matthew 4:4 - Man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY WORD that proceedeth out of the MOUTH of GOD.

    Where is written "every Word that proceeded out of the MOUTH of GOD"?

    Maatthew 11: 27 - ...no MAN knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any MAN the Father, save the Son, and he TO WHOMSOEVER the Son WILL REVEAL HIM.

    1 John 5:19-20

    19 And we know that we are of GOD, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

    20 And we know that the Son of GOD is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know Him that is true, and we are in Him that is true, even in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true GOD, and eternal life.

    John 3:3 and 5 and 17-21:

    3 ... Except a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of GOD.

    5 ... Except a MAN be born of water(of the Word of GOD) and of the Spirit(the Word is Spirit), he cannot enter into the Kingdom of GOD.

    17 For GOD sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through Him might be saved.

    18 He that believeth on Him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of GOD.

    19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

    20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

    21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in GOD.
  • Oseas - In Reply - 8 months ago
    Jess L onJohn13

    You asked:How is Jesus and God one,and Jesus was sent by God?

    Now,didn't you(and all like you)still understand or interpret this mystery?Does not the Word testify that He is GOD?Yes,He does. The Word is GOD,self-executing or self-executable,understand?The Word is from everlasting to everlasting,the Word has not beginning,neither ending.As you and all know,JESUS is the beginning and the ending

    For clarifying the great and deep MYSTERY of GOD sent JESUS,and both the Father and the Son be One,hope that you and all understand meditating in what the Word Himself said by/through His prophet Isaiah around year750BC- Isaiah 9:6-7:

    6For unto us a child is born,unto us a Son is given:and the government shall be upon His shoulder:and His NAME shall be called Wonderful,Counsellor,The MIGHTY GOD(Mat.28:18 and Rev.1:8,among biblical references),The everlasting Father,The Prince of Peace

    7Of the increase of His government( Revelation 11:15-18)and peace there shall be no end,upon the Throne of David,and upon His KINGDOM,to order it,and to ESTABLISH IT with Judgment and with Justice from henceforth even for ever.The ZEAL of the LORD of hosts will perform this

    Then,having passed around 750years after the Word have said prophetically the message above through His servant Isaiah,by the way,Isaiah is one of the 24 elders,the Word LITERALLY fulfilled His wonderful promise to send His Son,exactly in the END of the 4th Day and beginning of the 5th Day,actually in the TURN from the 4th to the 5th millennium after Adam,or 2000 years ago.THEN the Word was MADE FLESH,as said John Apostle- John 1:14-,and dwelt among us,(and we beheld His glory,the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,)-JESUS WAS BORN-full of grace and truth

    Heb.1:1-3->1GOD,who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,2-Has in these last days spoken unto us by His Son...3 Who being the brightness of His glory,the EXPRESS IMAGE OF THE PERSON OF GOD...
  • Ronald Whittemore - In Reply on John 13 - 8 months ago
    Hi Jess L,

    This is a difficult subject to discuss openly. Being one is to be united in the holy love of God. The way we can do this is to become one with His Son, Jesus Christ the only way to the Father, John 14:6. When a man and woman are married, they become one as we through faith become one in Jesus. When Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist Jesus was filled without measure with the Holy Ghost/Spirit, God's Spirit, John 3:34.

    God was manifested in Jesus, John 14:10 1 Tim. 3:10. Jesus was the Tabernacle of God, John 10:38. Jesus and the Father are one John 10:30 and Jesus told us we can be one as He and the Father are one, John 17:20-23. Jesus did nothing on His own, only the will of the Father, Jesus was obedient to the Father, Rom. 5:19 and as you said, Jesus was sent by the Father, John 5:30. The doctrine Jesus laid out was not His doctrine but His who sent Him, the Father, John 7:16.



    All things are delivered unto Jesus of the Father, Matt. 11:27 and all in heaven and earth is under Jesus's feet, 1 Cor. 15:27 and will be until the last enemy is under His feet, that is death, Rev. 20:14. Jesus said the Father was greater than Him, John 14:28. Scripture says Jesus has a God, 2 Cor. 11:3 1 Eph. 1:3 Eph. 1:17 Col 1:3 Jesus said He had a God John 20:17.

    In the garden, Jesus prayed to the Father that the cup He was about to partake could pass if there was another way, but said not His will but the Father's will, Matt. 26:39. All the introductions, greetings, and blessings in the Scriptures in the New Testament that are given to the followers of Christ and called to be saints from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, two not three.

    Rom. 1:7-8 1 Cor. 1:3-4 1 John 1:3 2 John 1:3 2 Cor. 1:2-3 Gal. 1:3-4 Eph. 1:2-3 Phil. 1:2 Col. 1:2-3 2 Thess.1:2 1 Tim.1:2 2 Tim.1:2 Titus 1:4 Philemon 1:3 2 Pet. 1:2.



    You must study the Scriptures letting the Holy Spirit the Spirit of God guide you to your understanding, not from my reply, or man.

    God bless,

    RLW
  • Jema - In Reply on John 13 - 8 months ago
    Great post , thank you .
  • Jordyn - In Reply on John 13 - 8 months ago
    Amen brother ronald

    god bless you!
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 8 months ago
    Hi Jess L.

    I concur with Gigi.

    Jesus was temporarily "made lower than the angels" Hebrews 2:9.

    which refers to Jesus' status. The second Person of the Trinity took on human flesh.

    Jesus was fully human and "made lower than the angels." However, Jesus is fully divine, too.

    I've heard it put like this, By taking on human nature, Jesus did not relinquish His divine nature-God cannot stop being God.

    Philippians 2:6-8. reads as follows.

    Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

    But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

    And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

    Jesus voluntarily relinquished this while on earth. He put himself under the will of the Father, "that is his role".

    Therefore, the fact that the Son took on a human nature and made Himself subservient to the Father in no way denies the deity of the Son, nor does it diminish His essential equality with the Father. The "greatness" spoken of in this verse, then, relates to role, not to essence.

    God bless
  • Carleton - In Reply - 8 months ago
    Amen brother Spencer and GiGi.

    Thank you.

    God Bless.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 8 months ago
    Thanks Brother Carleton and you are welcome.

    God bless.
  • GiGi - In Reply on John 13 - 8 months ago
    Jess L.

    PT. 2

    To wrap up. In John 15:26, Jesus says, "But when the Comforter (the Holy Spirit) is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of Truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me."

    Here we see how the "offices" of the Godhead work in unity, Jesus ask of the Father, to send the Holy Spirit to be given unto His disciples, and the Father wills to do this, the Spirit, who proceeds from the Father, is not independent of the Godhead) has the office of testifying of and about Jesus. Jesus and the Holy Spirit are given to us by the Father. The Father is the one who send both, Jesus asks of the Father and also send the Spirit in union with the Father. Jesus has the office of Mediator, one who goes between man and the Father, so in sending the Holy Spirit, he mediates this sending from the Father of the Spirit, and the Spirit completes the will of the Father by testifying of Jesus. All of the Godhead wills that the Spirit will come and dwell within believers and when the Spirit does this, all persons of the Godhead indwell a believer. It is all, really, one act of God carried out by all three persons.

    I hope that this is helpful. It is important to distinguish between the Essence of God, His Divine Being, and the distinction of the Persons of this one Divine Being. Then we can understand how Jesus can be one with the Father and also for the Father to be greater than Jesus.
  • GiGi - In Reply on John 13 - 8 months ago
    Dear Jess L.

    That is a very good question.

    Many would say that that God's Essence, (divine nature) is the same for the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. There is only one Divine Essence and only those in the Godhead possess it to its fullest perfection and eternal existence. The Godhead is a union of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

    John 13:20 says: Verily, Verily, I say unto you, he that receiveth whomever (the Holy Spirit) I send receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveith him who sent me (the Father). Here Jesus speaks of three persons who are received by us and indwell us together as one God, not three.

    John 14:10 says " Believeth thou not that I am in the Father and the Father in me? The words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself, but my Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the work." Jesus is saying the when He speaks the Father is speaking in and through Him.

    And in John 14:23 Jesus says: " If a man love me, he will keep my words; and my Father will love him, and we will come and make our abode in him." Here, after promising to send the Holy Spirit vs. 16 and that the Spirit will dwell in us, says that when the Spirit is abiding in us, so is the Father and the Son. So here is a prime example of three distinct persons living in us as a unity.

    But it is in the relationship between the persons of the Godhead that there is a hierarchy. The Father is head of the Son and Spirit. He is in authority over the Son and Spirit, and the Spirit is subject to the Father and the Son. The Son is in submission to the Father. In this way, relationally, the Father is greater than the Son.

    Also, in terms of "offices" the authority of the Father is over that of the Son. Jesus will turn over to the Father all power and authority when all of God's enemies are put under Christ's feet, as promised by the Father and recorded as prophecy in Scriptures. Jesus said in John 10:8 that He only speaks what the Father speaks through Him.

    continued in pt. 2



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