Genesis Chapter 1 Discussion



 
  • S Spencer - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 1 month ago
    Hi Tdianne.

    I would like to share my thoughts on archeology findings used to date some of ancient beings and dinosaurs ect.ect.

    In the middle east just a few years ago, (maybe 3 or 4) there was an archeology finding of what was supposedly bones and a skull of a caveman over a million years old. The Archeologists made this assumption due to the settlement and depth of the earth during the excavation.

    Then there was a problem!

    They also found a coin with the imprint of a Pharoah in the same settlement that dated around 7000 years.

    The unique imprint of this Pharaoh gives the identity of the Pharaoh and Archeologists are able to research the time he reign.

    I find that interesting.

    God bless you.
  • GiGi - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 1 month ago
    Hello, Adam, You are missed. Hope to hear more from you.
  • Oseas - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 1 month ago
    You're welcome,Andre4risca,I enjoyed a lot your post.I thank you very much for your kind and wise reply.I confess that I was very surprised and amazed by your response.

    Yes,among theologians,and believers,followers of them,there is a conception the Planet Earth is around 6,000 years old,what is a false conception.

    In the other hand,the scientific conception about the age of the Earth also is empiric,I would say the empiric conception of science on Earth's age is also false and a nonsense.

    That said,what matters and prevails is the Truth.Once the two conceptions above described are wrong,both are good for nothing,I will not be brought under the power of any,I will not allow myself to be carried away by either,but where I will find the Truth?This reminds me of Pilate.What is Truth?For me what matters is the Truth, exclusively.

    What I know is that JESUS' own testimony about Himself is wonderful,and reveals to us in depth the mystery of His existence in the greatness of the Universe created by GOD,the Word,GOD Father,full of heavenly bodies,and here on Earth,specifically,He populated the planet with living beings,and sat in the CIRCLE of the Earth,as is written in Isaiah 40:21-22:

    21Have ye not known?have ye not heard?hath it not been told you from the beginning?have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?

    22It is GOD that sits upon the CIRCLE of the Earth,and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers;

    I remember what JESUS said from His own existence: John 17:4-5,as follow:

    4I have glorified thee-Father-on the earth:I have finished the work which thou gave me to do.( John 1:3 & 5:17,and Hebrews 1:1-2 testify about this that JESUS said.Take a look)

    5And now,O Father,glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the WORLD was. John the Baptist,the angel of the LORD,testified about this,saying: John 1:18- No man hath seen GOD at any time,the only begotten Son,which is in the bosom of the Father,He has declared Him.
  • Andre4risca - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 1 month ago
    Dear Oseas,

    Thank you for your thoughtful comment. It's clear that this is a topic you've given a lot of consideration to.

    You're absolutely right that scientific evidence and religious texts often provide different perspectives on questions about our world and its origins. These two sources of knowledge have different methodologies and purposes, which can lead to different conclusions.

    Scientific evidence is based on empirical observations and experiments. Scientists observe the natural world, form hypotheses, conduct experiments, and then interpret the results. This process is iterative and self-correcting, with each new piece of evidence potentially refining or even overturning previous understandings. The age of the Earth, for example, is estimated at 4.54 billion years based on a variety of scientific methods, including radiometric dating of rocks and minerals.

    Religious texts, on the other hand, are often based on revelations, spiritual experiences, and the wisdom of religious leaders and communities. They provide guidance on moral and ethical issues, give meaning to life, and help individuals and communities navigate their spiritual journeys. Some interpretations of the Bible, for instance, suggest a much younger Earth, around 6,000 years old.

    It's important to note that these two sources of knowledge are not necessarily in conflict. Many people find ways to reconcile their religious beliefs with scientific understanding. Others see them as addressing different kinds of questions - science answering "how" questions about the workings of the natural world, and religion addressing "why" questions about purpose and meaning.

    Thank you again for sharing your perspective. It's through open and respectful dialogue that we can all learn and grow
  • Oseas - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 2 months ago
    Dear Adam

    English is not my native language,for me it's harder to speak of the theories of man-made than to speak of the Word of GOD.

    To those that say age of the Earth is around 14 billions of years,we can counter argue that the number is not accurate,although to the common man it could be, the gods of this world(the common men made of the dust of the earth- Genesis 2:19)have blinded the minds of them which believe in them,believe in them which trie to plagiarize the science of the Most High and Almighty GOD, but the best of their conceptions in this field is nothing more than foolish conjectures and deceitful theories given by man-made scientific apparatus.

    What we belivers must say to the atheists is that the age of the Earth is much much more than that billions of years age they claim.This assert lefts them very astonished,of course.What we must say to the atheists in the reply, is that the age pointed in their posts is the maximum limit that man-made scientific apparatus or measuring equipments of the scientists is ABLE to measure.So it has nothing to do with the age of the Earth.We could say unto them or would say that for measuring the age of the Earth the men need to invent a scientific apparatus more qualified and ABLE to measure beyond or over of what has been measured by the scientists to this date, then the false current theory of the Earth's age will be changed for a new theory.I'm sure they will never get do it first because the Universe is a GOD's secret,second because they not know that the Devil's world in which they are living will END now,even now,from now on,it has been pre-determined to start in this current decade,it with great and traggic destruction as was previously prophesied-confirmed by Revelation 11:18-,whereof GOD has given assurance unto all men in His former secret book of Apocalypse-Re.1:1-,sealed with seven seals,which were revealed to JESUS and were broken and opened by Him around 65 years after His ascension.

    GOD bless
  • Bennymkje - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 2 months ago
    Adam,

    The Bible is not any book on our natural world. Dinosaurs ammonites all have their place. God is a Spirit and God's kingdom has its own rules as there are rules for grammar. Any one who would move in a polite society and wants to be looked up speaks as a cultured well educated person.So don'be drawn by atheists whose little knowledge is from Science that is incomplete. After Galileo they want only proof so they shall keep on driving a square block in round hole. Faith with works is simply trust in our Savior Lord and work as he would want us.

    If one has the Son he has the Father as well. So understand the word of God by the indwelling Spirit and it is the only way.
  • Adam - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 2 months ago
    God (including Jesus) created everything, including what we call dinosaurs. These facts are not in conflict. If you believe they are and have a question about it maybe others can help.

    Often atheists who practice the sciences are motivated to make claims of an old billions of years old earth, which is based on inaccurate carbon dating. As an example there have been relatively recent events, such as the Mt. Saint Helens eruption, that when similar science has been applied it dates the lava to being over a million years old, but we know it was from 1980.
  • Tdianne on Genesis 1 - 2 months ago
    I know God exists, but where did the dinosaur come from?

    The fossils are real, but I can't get any answers to this question.
  • RED APPLE TREATY 4 ME ONLY on Genesis 1 - 5 months ago
    "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." Genesis 1:27 KJV

    God made man in his image and when you look at male and female you will see God. Both are adopted and loved by God.
  • Gerhardus - In Reply on Genesis 1:1 - 7 months ago
    Hi GiGi.

    I have named no names and purely made a statement.

    I am under the impression God is a live and his Son Jesus is still on earth.

    Matthew 4:4 | Read whole chapter

    But he answered, and said, It is written, Man shall not liue by bread alone, but by euery word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
  • GiGi - In Reply on Genesis 1:1 - 7 months ago
    Hello again Gerhardus,

    In my post I did not claim to be chosen of God due to education or certificate, so that comment does not apply to me.

    Jesus said that His words are spirit and Life, so yes, the Scriptures bring us knowledge of Christ without Him appearing to us. We hear from those He inspired who WERE eyewitnesses of Him when He lived on earth (Paul being the exception having seen the risen and glorified Jesus).

    Gerhardus, one thing I think every believer has is the Holy Spirit because Peter said that the Spirit is given to all who come to faith in Jesus Acts 2:38-39. When you ask those on this forum if we have received the Holy Ghost, it seems like you are posing a challenge to others as to the genuineness of their faith, which you cannot determine. And when you denigrate those who seek to learn from Scripture, you are showing a prejudice towards people who use their minds as well as their hearts to come to know our Lord and the Father.

    We are to love the Lord with all of our hearts, soul, MINDS, and strength. We are to us our mind to access what God says in HIS Scriptures. It is with our minds that we hear the Scriptures spoken or with our minds that we read and understand what we read. This is as God has designed it to be.

    Scriptures do not tell us to expect a "visit" from Jesus to be taught of Him, as you seem to state. He gave us Scriptures as a sure and stable revelation of Himself and how He saves us from our sin. How we are to live inn a godly way for His glory and how we are to treat one another with love, especially those who also believe.

    Gerhardus, I am glad to have read your posts. I hope our conversations will be gracious and reflect the truth of God revealed in Scripture. I will be praying for you. I hope you will also lift me up in prayer. Thanks.
  • Gerhardus - In Reply on Genesis 1:1 - 7 months ago
    Do every one have the Holy Ghost?
  • Gerhardus - In Reply on Genesis 1:1 - 7 months ago
    A person need to receive the Holy Ghost. And Christ gave the Holy Ghost unto his Apostles and they gave it unto those that were chosen by God. Jesus said unto his Apostles free you have received it free you shall give it. If he that claim he is a chosen of God because he paid for the education and has a certificate to prove it is a liar and had been lied to.

    The New testament acknowledge Jesus and tel us things about him and the works he did and the things he said but it also tel us about the Apostles and the things they did and say and how God appeared unto them and have send them where He God needed them.

    The Scripture by itself dont bring salvation. It may bring hope. Salvation is to know the true God and his Son Jesus Christ - the Church today off which Christ is the head.

    What I learn from the new testament is that God - if (you are a chosen) may personally appear unto you, from time to time, with a special request which you SHOULD NOT go against.

    The thing is - CAN "YOU - meaning anyone today" with authority claim he is a chosen one of God.
  • GiGi - In Reply on Genesis 1:1 - 7 months ago
    Hello Gerhardus, welcome.

    The story of Philip and the Ethiopian demonstrates why God gave the offices of pastor, teacher, evangelist, apostle to the church Jesus created and promised to preserve throughout the ages. The Scriptures are our teachers because the words were written by apostles, taught of God, Who gave them the inspiration as to what to write. The Words in Scripture are God's message to us.

    We are to read the Scriptures repeatedly to get them deep into our minds and hearts:

    *to be able to remember verses to share with others in their time of learning or need

    *to bring to mind when we need comfort, correcting, and understanding in all situations in our lives

    *to teach them to our children in the everyday moments when circumstance come up where a good word from Scripture is needed without opening up the Scriptures to search for a verse

    There are many more reasons to be very familiar with ALL of the Bible, so frequent reading is important.

    Then there is the study of the Scriptures that goes beyond just reading it. We do this to:

    *learn correct doctrines taught by the apostles across the epistles

    *to learn more and more of Jesus in the Gospels

    *to mature in our understanding of what God has revealed in Scripture

    *to share our thoughts with others as we interact with Scripture

    *to learn from a pastors sermons, teachers who lead us, and those God has anointed to be wise in Scriptural truth.

    There are many other reasons to study the Scriptures

    We meditate on what we read in Scriptures to:

    *allow the Holy Spirit to strengthen our faith

    *to immerse ourselves in the thoughts of Gods instead of thoughts of the world

    *to mindful of God's Presence in us and His prescribed way of coming to Him through prayer and His Word

    *to help us as we pray with the help of the Holy Spirit

    There are many other reasons to meditate on Scripture.

    All these actions are important to employ in our lives regularly.

    Jesus said, "My words are Spirit and Live"
  • Gerhardus on Genesis 1:1 - 7 months ago
    The Scripture is good for teaching and referral. Knowing the Scripture by heart is good but is not meaningful to God. Looking at the piece where Philip was send to the eunuch on the wagon there are a lot to learn from this piece.

    1) The Lord after His crucifixion appeared unto Philip (ONE he taught) and instructed him to visit the eunuch on the wagon. It is clear that God from time to time make use of people HE TAUGHT to go and do work for HIM. Now then if you are not a taught of Christ how will he appear unto you?

    2) The eunuch did read the Scripture but did not understand (hidden from). This again shows me if you are not taught by Christ himself or by one he directly taught and or they taught you will not understand the scripture. And therefor not one of HIS. As it is written in the scripture where Jesus told them who did not understand - you dont understand cause you not of my flock.
  • Ronald Whittemore - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 8 months ago
    Hi Angel,

    The held tradition is Adam and Eve are the man, male and female created on day six. It will be defended dogmatically, and for no reason other than that is what has been taught. There are only 5 chapters from the creation of Adam until the flood, 1656 years. There is so much we have not been told.

    There are two Adams in the Bible the first in Genesis 2 and the last, Jesus our savior, 1 Cor. 15:45. Everyone living today is the descendant of Adam and Eve due to the flood where Noah and his sons and wives are the only eight humans after the flood and we all came from them.

    The male and female on day six were to be fruitful and fill the earth and have dominion over the entire earth. Could Adam and Eve do this in the Garden of Eden, they did not have children until they were cast out of the garden, if this was on day six, after they had sinned, would God say everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good, Gen. 1:31? What does it change? Nothing, since the flood Eve is still the mother of all living, all before the flood is washed away.

    Sin began with the first Adam and salvation was with the last Adam Jesus and what was before the first Adam we have not been told. We must study without preconceived ideas and our ears open to the teaching of the Spirit of God. Study the words earth and field. Could Adam and Eve fulfill the earth and have dominion over the entire earth being in the Garden of Eden?

    There is more I could say but it does not change the plan of God, we all are descendants of Adam and Eve, and evolution has no part in creation. The teaching of man causes doubt, Truth sets us free, study for your understanding and your conscience.

    God bless,

    RLW
  • Jesse A - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 8 months ago
    Hi, Angel.

    There is only one creation of man.

    Genesis ch 1 is the beginning and the time in days etc.

    In which god formed all things.

    Genesis ch 2 is an explanation of how and what Gods process was. We can see this in Genesis ch 2 vs 4-5

    4

    These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

    5

    And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

    Look at the words in vs 4 These are the generations (present tense)

    Vs 4 again when they were created. (Past tense)

    Vs 5 of the field before it was in the earth .key word being (before ) meaning prior to him creating it.

    Hope this helps.

    May Gods peace and Grace be upon you.

    GB I love you all.
  • Jordyn - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 8 months ago
    AngelEverett:

    Yes there is TWO creations of man.

    The FIRST was when he made man out of the dust of the earth and breathed the breath of life into man.

    The SECOND is when ALL FLESH and BLOOD died on the cross of Christ.

    Three days later a NEW CREATION arose, Christ and his wife, EVE, taken from Christ's rib, bone of Christ's bone flesh of Christ's flesh, NO LONGER living by the breath of life, BUT, LIFE by the SPIRIT of GOD.

    God BLESS YOU!
  • AngelEverett on Genesis 1 - 8 months ago
    So interesting in Genesis! In Chapter 1:26 - 27 God created man - male and female telling them to replenish the earth, be fruitful and multiply.

    Then in Genesis 2v.7 Another account of God creating man. This time the account says He breathed into his nostrils the breath of life making him a living soul.

    Not until verse 22 do we have an account of the creation of woman who God began with Adam's rib. Adam taken from the dust - woman taken from man.

    So was there two creations of man?
  • Oseas - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 8 months ago
    Karoanne"

    The Word is from everlasting to everlasting, He has not begining nor ending. JESUS is the begining. The Word is GOD-John1:1-, The same was in the beginning -was in JESUS-with GOD- John 1:2. As said the angel of the Lord -John the Baptist - "No man hath seen GOD at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared Him". Isaiah 9:6 - Unto us a child is born, unto us a Son is given: and the government shall be upon His shoulder: and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. JESUS said: I and my Father are One( John 10:30), and All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth- Matthew 28:18.



    Who knows GOD? Who knows JESUS? Even JESUS Himself said: No man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal Him- Matthew 11:27. It's it.
  • FaithNYeshua on Genesis 1 - 9 months ago
    Studying Scripture is so magnificent. Thousands of generations have received God's faithful Truth!

    It presses me deeply within by recognizing the Virtue In Strength seeing language has evolved so many eras, past and even now In our day, so deep meditation and prayer aids me to hear God's message.

    A firm foundation is {'knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture came to be of one's own interpretation, for prophecy never came by the desire of man, but men of Elohim spoke, being moved by the Set-apart Spirit. Kpha Bt (2 Peter) 1:20-21 TS2009}

    In John 1:1 ( Gen. 1:1; Rev. 3:14 along side being lead back from Isa. 46:9-10) begins to point out the bigger portrait necessary to come to better understand Him.

    Before being born regenerate by (and through) Yeshua, I would read and not understand. Now The Scriptures (Genesis to Malachi) bring clear evidence that caused an ahha moment like Mosheh at the Bush that burned which wasn't consumed. ( Ex. 3:2-4). Isa. 46:10 also renews the mindset as written, {I call upon you, therefore, brothers, through the compassion of Elohim, to present your bodies a living offering - set-apart, well-pleasing to Elohim - your reasonable worship. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you prove what is that good and well-pleasing and perfect desire of Elohim. Romiyim (Romans) 12:1-2 TS2009}

    because { Messiah is the same yesterday, and today, and forever.

    Irim (Hebrews) 13:8 TS2009}

    among many others brings understanding to Yeshua meaning by the ancient tongue, means Yehovah saves. Showing they are One. ( said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham came to be, I am."). Yohanan (John) 8:58 TS2009

    joining God to be understood as ONE {And Elohim said to Mosheh, "I am that which I am." And He said, "Thus you shall say to the children of Yisra'l, 'I am has sent me to you.' "

    Shemoth (Exodus) 3:14 TS2009.}
  • Dgjot - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 9 months ago
    Thank You. That is very helpful
  • Dgjot - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 9 months ago
    Okay. Thank You.
  • GiGi - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 9 months ago
    Hello, Dgjot,

    Glad to hear from you.

    Most say that Moses wrote Genesis-Deuteronomy. He was inspired by the Holy Spirit to write not only what he experienced in his lifetime, but also Genesis. Did the Holy Spirit give him direct revelation concerning Genesis, especially about creation or did the Holy Spirit help him recall what had been passed down from generation to generation? I really cannot say. If it is the latter, then i feel that I must assume that God preserved the truth of what occurred as it was passed from generation to generation.
  • Dgjot on Genesis 1 - 9 months ago
    Who wrote Genesis? Moses??
  • Bennymkje - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 9 months ago
    We both are children of God since we committed our lives to Jesus Christ we also brethren. There is no age or gender bar in his sight. So let us see how God builds you and me in Christ. In Col.1:16-19 we are told we all are part of his body. God determined this fulness in him so everything must relate to the body, the Church. "And by him all things consist." You mentioned of angels and you are right.

    The holy city of God has only single measure. Gospel is one and,"The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal./And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel." (Re.21:16-17) Jesus Christ died once and he has a spiritual body, an anagel' to all practical purposes. When we say we have put on Christ we are part of the measurement. Wherever we lack it is his grace that shall fill up the shortfall. So we live by grace and trusting that he knows all our needs. St John wanted to worship the angel who showed him around. He told him not to."for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, " He is one like John and it is how we serve each other. We are all angels working with the spirit of Christ and our indwelling Spirit responds to it. We need not put him to test but simply trust. He will not contradict God or his Word. As he is so are we in this world.

    May the grace of our Savior bless us and keep us to remain pure in this world. Amen
  • Pete - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 9 months ago
    Thank U for your comments. It will take time for me to understand them as I don't read the various parts of the bible. I read the commandments and some of genesis and accept the Bible. I do research and some I think relatd to the BIble. I think that our time scales are far different for the time scale of God for example I often wondered that when the roll is called up younder; how long would it take as I imagined it would be like in a class room and the I realized that God can do anything and so that would be done in far less that a milli second as we would all instantly hear our names; and similarly, the the plans for heaven and Earth were in less than a millisecond; and it was all started and continued and done and then his spirit was upon the face of the earth; and He created all the animals etc. and then man; and He created man with the ability to think and decide right from wrong, a little lower that the angels; and there was a reason for that, as angles, if they start to think, they can rebels similar to when the archangel and his followers did, or they just may want try living on earth, maybe to see if they can better it as live men or women; but when they become so they forget they are angles and are born as children a little lower than angles. I think that God sets up Systems for everything that automatically work; and if you do not follow the systems; they will not work as they should of course and we may suffer and or maybe die; however the system will recover before we all die.

    BY faith in Jesus who died for our sins; and the forgiving of those sins; many will be judged and hopefully saved to live as Angels

    I dont think my comments contradict anything in the Bible. They are not meant to do so. They are only my thoughts and I appreciate anyone commenting on them and teaching me and even adding new aspects to my thoughts. Debating, free speech and discussion is good for mind, body and souls; but it also can confuse. So take care. Thanks 4 your reply
  • Bennymkje - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 9 months ago
    Hello Pete,

    In order to understand the creation account it is a simple matter of following the Spirit who organized it as the God document. 2 Ti.3:16 The Bible is God breathed. God breathing into man made him a living soul, So we shall do well to compare spiritual with spiritual. "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual."(1 Co.2:13)

    The first chapter of Genesis is the abstract of the worlds framed by the word of God. Jesus Christ as the visible image of the invisible God. It is thus we view faith as the only manner the invisible aspects of God we may cultivate. He.11:3 By faith God framed the worlds. Jesus Christ as the Word become flesh we receive by faith. In the fulness of time so St Paul refers to his Advent ("But when the fulness of the time was come"-Gal.4:4)

    When the Spirit begins the Book of Genesis 'In the beginning' refers to a timescale which has nothing to do with earth time. It is the will of God so we either accept it totally or deny it. There was no human will or reason to interpret it arbitrarily. The Bible is inerrant. The focus is solely on the Son who was sent for a purpose. God blessed us with all spiritual blessings even before the worlds we created. (Ep.1:3) The Word was God. ( John 1:1) This verse also begins with 'In the beginning'. There is also 'end times'.
  • Pete on Genesis 1 - 9 months ago
    In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

    THIS IS INTERESTING BECAUSE WHEN HEAVEN WAS CREATED IT TOOK A TREMENDOUS LOT OF ENERGY, (and i would think iwt; and that even natural mind and or brain development is all about smooth, relaxing, quiet energy) AND iwt that angels were created at the same time as they are part of Heaven and iwt that they do not ordinarily think unless it is all good and proper thinking for an angel and if it is not; they are fallen angels and probably become as men or women; but man is a little lower than angels; and we thus we do think; and if we think like an angel, we will become angels but if we don't; if we believe enough to become one; and if we truly wanted forgivenous; we will be forgiven. I think that man was created to give angels a place to go if they wanted a change form going throughout heaven viewing all of God's creation; and of course Adam was directed to look after the animals/ecology; but he failed and we failed.
  • Chris - In Reply on Genesis 1 - 10 months ago
    Hi Strobe. In Genesis 3:20, Adam named his wife 'Eve' (Hebrew, Chavvah), as this name means, "life, or living". You might remember that Adam first called her 'woman' (Ishshah, Genesis 2:23), meaning, 'woman, female' (as one coming out from man), but then he named her, Eve. We aren't told what prompted Adam to now call her Eve; probably, he saw in her the God-given capacity to reproduce & hence be the progenitor of others of their type, not being created in the way God had done for them. So this verse then strongly implies that there were no living humans before Adam & Eve, as Eve was our very first Mother & all in the world must come through her line & manner of birth (not creation).


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