Isaiah Chapter 58 Discussion



 
  • T Levis - In Reply on Isaiah 58 - 1 year ago
    Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Numbers, Judges 20:26, 1Samuel 7:6, 1Samuel 31:13, 2Samuel 1:12,

    Jesus also addressess fasting: Matthew 6:16-18, Luke 18:7-14, Matthew 17:14-21, Mark 9:14-29,

    Hopefully this is helpful
  • Billy Poole on Isaiah 58 - 1 year ago
    What are they fast are they referring,and where it be found in the bible?
  • Amadi Divine on Isaiah 58 - 1 year ago
    Your Comment...i luv the bible
  • Brian on Isaiah 58 - 1 year ago
    That's contradictory about the the 4th commandment being absolute and the other nine still valid.

    Jesus says if you love me keep.my commandments John 14:15

    The Bible also states in 1 John 2 1-4.we are liars if we say we love God but depart from the law of love.

    Lastly, James let's us know it the standard it the law of liberty. Liberty is in Christ, He makes us free from the bandage of sin in the law of Moses that records the sacrifices for sin and free will offerings.

    If thr 4th commandment could be changed or abolish then Jesus need not have died. It is because the law stands fast forever why Jesus had to come to show us how to keep them. I delight to do thy will thy law is with my heart. Psalms 40:8
  • S Spencer - In Reply on Isaiah 58 - 2 years ago
    Amen Brother Chris!

    Very well stated!

    God bless you and all you do Brother.
  • Giannis - In Reply on Isaiah 58 - 2 years ago
    Dear Bro Dan.

    Let's talk about the Ten Commandments.

    The ten com/ments in the OT were a sort of summary of the moral Law given by God to Moses, the most significant ones, we may say.

    Are they still valid in the era of the NT? This question can be answered according to what we want to come to.

    If we want to see what is the relevance between the Decalogue and Salvation, they are different things. Salvation is a gift from God through the acceptance of Jesus Christ's Sacrifice on the Cross. It is not aquired as a wage of obeying the 10 com/ments or any other com/ment.

    But still obeying God's Law or com/ments is essential for our salvation. Disobeying God's Law is a sin, and if one keeps doing that in his life and not repent, I am sorry to say he will not enter the Kingdom of God in Heaven. Many christians, not me, believe that salvation is secured once we believed and were born again and got baptized. But remember the parable of the ten virgins? All of them were virgins (children of God), had oil (Holly Spirit) inside them, had light (pure life) but only five of them were accepted by Jesus in. The rest heard that horrible thing " I don't know you". So obeying God's Law in our christian life is a necessity for believers.

    Now, are all ten com/ments still valid in the NT? Yes, unless otherwise stated in the Gospel. The one for Sabbath is not, it is what that verse in Colosians states. Also the one that says to not misuse the name of God is partly changed by Jesus, as far as swearying to God is concerned, Matthew 33-34. And many other commandments from the OT have been changed by Jesus ie about divorce, about loving and not hating our enemy and some more. The rest of them are still valid. But they are not the basis of the christian faith like it was for Jews Jesus Christ's Sacrifice is the basis on where we build our lives. And if one wants to somehow summarize God's Law in NT, I think the com/nts in Matthew chapt. 5, and 6 are the ones to read.

    God Bless you brother.
  • Bro dan - In Reply on Isaiah 58 - 2 years ago
    Hi Bro Giannis,

    I agree with you, it is very beneficial to have these conversation's, as it forces us to continually revisit scripture, think, pray, and meditate, until hopefully over time, the truth finally becomes evident.

    Regarding your query about the Sabbath, I will comment on that, but I would like to mention that I believe that "all of the bible scripture should be in agreement", and when it doesn't, we need to continue to review, and study until it does.

    Example: Many Christians state God's 10 Commandments were nailed to the cross, and that now, because of the NC we are no longer under the Law. It is my belief, that this does NOT agree with what the gospel of Jesus Christ taught, nor the Apostles including Paul. I believe that this doctrine comes from misunderstanding many of Pauls letters in the bible.

    Note: Remember Paul preaches the "same gospel" as Jesus Christ/God as he is a servant of Jesus/God.

    Romans 1:1

    "Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,"

    Those that believe and tell us that the 10 Commandments are no longer valid seem to base this entirely on scripture by Paul. Some say that to try to keep the Commandments are works, and works are no longer required, per their interpretation here again, of Paul. Keep in mind this doctrine does not agree with Jesus, the original Apostles, and is even in conflict what Paul teaches, and "observes himself." Paul began teaching after Jesus death, and continued to teach and observe the commandments, as did all of the apostles, including keeping the 7th day Sabbath!

    If Paul taught that the Commandments were dead, why did he observe them?????

    The early Church observed the Commandments including the Sabbath. Many scholars believe that the Sabbath (as observed by Christian's) changed at some point during the 3rd century AD. This can easily be researched in more detail if one desires.

    GB
  • Giannis - In Reply on Isaiah 58 - 2 years ago
    Dear Charrisse and Bro Dan

    I was wondering...

    If the early christians actually celebrated Sabbath what was the purpose of selecting another day, the next to Sabbath, to gather together? They honoured that day by naming it the Lord's Day, they had their formal congregation on that day, also the Holly Communion took place on that day. What for, since they had the Holly Day of Sabbath (assuming that)? By the way Sunday was not a holiday or a rest day for the ancient world so for them to choose it as their formal day. For ancients every day was a working day, they didn't have a rest day during the week, actually the Roman week was an 8 day week with no weekend rest. Only in the third century AD, when a large part of Rome became christians, emperor Constantine declared a 7 day week with Sunday as a rest day, similar to the Jewish week. Pay attention Sunday not Saturday (Sabbath). So Sunday was not a special day for christians in the very early time to select it as the Lord's Day, but still did that and ignored Saturday.

    Again hstorically speaking, there is no mention of Sabbath in the writings of the early christian writters, or the so called Apostolic Fathers or those after them. Historical churches like the R/Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox churches never practiced Sabbaths. One can argue that those churches have many faults bur still if there was a Sabbath celebration in the beginning wouldn't they keep that practice? Surely they would.

    I think brother Chris has also some very good points on this argument.

    Anyway it's good for all of us to have these conversations. God bless you all.
  • Chris - In Reply on Isaiah 58 - 2 years ago
    Page 3.

    4. So which is the Sabbath Day? The Sabbath was given only to Israel ( Exodus 31:12-17) - no one else. It, along with Circumcision, marked them as 'belonging to the LORD'. No other people or nation ever received this, or any other, Law to obey. The Gentiles coming to Christ after the Gospel was preached & received, were never compelled to come under the Law in any shape or form. How could they be brought under the Law that only killed? Efforts were made to bring them under the Law, but that was rejected ( Galatians 2:11-21). For indeed, "if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain." The Jewish Sabbath, along with all Laws, was cast aside, having no more bearing on the one 'in Christ'. Our righteousness, given by God, can never be from the Laws to obey or the Sabbath to observe - our righteousness is found in Christ alone, Who not only perfectly fulfilled the whole Law on our behalf, but opened the "new & living way", that only by His Power can we ever properly do His Will.

    As soon as we appeal to the Laws, even the Sabbath, we place ourselves under them, & by them we will be judged. And Sunday (the first day of the week) has never been a Sabbath for those in Christ - it is & always has been the day prescribed to be set aside to come together for worship ( Acts 20:7; 1 Corinthians 16:2).
  • Chris - In Reply on Isaiah 58 - 2 years ago
    Page 2.

    3. Jesus and the Law. Jesus kept the Law perfectly - what man could not do. Jesus lived among His people who were still under the Law & to the Law He pointed them. When He asked them to "keep HIS Commandments" ( John 14:15,21), it referred to not only the given Law but to the meaning & intent of the Laws He brought to them. I see that Jesus' Presence & Words (to His disciples) were the foretaste of what the old Law once declared & what He was now bringing them that gave them a glimpse to the Laws' higher demands met only in the power of the Spirit. And one day in the future, the apostles would understand what He meant & would have the power to live under His Laws & not the old Law.

    Matthew 5:17-20. The Jews were bound to the Law, to obey it fully, not as was declared by the Pharisees (that some laws more important than others). And Jesus too was bound by that same Law, not to destroy it, but by His Coming He was to fulfil it. And this He did at Calvary, fulfilling all the laws (moral & ceremonial) perfectly. But would men see it & believe it?
  • Chris - In Reply on Isaiah 58 - 2 years ago
    Page 1.

    Thank you Charrisse for that lengthy explanation. I'll write briefly on each main point that I see.

    1. Sabbath observance by those before Moses. You shared Genesis 26:5. We have been given no indication what these were: "my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws." We can learn of God's clear directions given to Abraham but to include what we believe were His Statutes, Commandments, & Laws without being specified, remains only a guess. To believe that the Sabbath command was given prior to Moses lacks evidence both in clarity & historically.

    2. The Law of Moses. Certainly, it contained "codes for ordinances & ceremonies (including feast & Holy days etc), sacrificial ceremony, health, civil laws, treatment of animals, treatment of slaves etc". But it also contained the "Commands of God". As David charged Solomon in 1 Kings 2:3: "And keep the charge of the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, to keep his statutes, and his commandments, and his judgments, and his testimonies, as it is written in the law of Moses". Did Moses in his book also include God's Decalogue, so that Solomon would always have the whole Law & Counsel of God at his fingertips? One could argue, 'well Solomon could have reached into the Ark of the Covenant to review them', but it remains a personal opinion of what the Law of Moses actually did contain.

    Then Paul in 2 Corinthians 3:6-11, speaks more specifically on that which was "engraven in stones". He called it "the ministration of death". If those tablets from God was glorious, but instead of giving life, it brought death (in its design), how much more would the ministration of the Spirit would be even more glorious. As the glory of Moses' countenance faded away, Paul says that so to would the Law fade away as that which remaineth (the ministration of righteousness) by the Spirit exceeded it in glory.
  • Charrisse Thompson - In Reply on Isaiah 58 - 2 years ago
    Page 3 Cont Hebrews 4

    c. Which then leads us to Hebrews chapter 4, where many Israelites died having failed to enter into Rest (the Promised Land) because of their unbelief. Then we read that, as God rested on the 7th Day (v4), there must be a future day of rest for His people. Joshua (v8) couldn't give them that rest even though many made it through to Canaan. Even David (coming after Joshua), spoke of God promising another day of rest (for those who've not hardened their hearts as earlier): vv6-8; Psalm 95:7-11. "There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God" (v9).

    d. So are we talking about a Sabbath Rest here or a Spiritual Rest that would come to those who no longer are wearily trying to justify themselves before God by trusting in the Law to be acceptable? The Rest those in Christ now enjoy have not only crucified the flesh but have their trust & hope in the One Who was crucified for them, to put an end to the Law that only brought death & punishment & never gave Rest."

    No we are talking about the Law of God that is for eternity, for all time and stands for all of God's creation to keep. The rest the sabbath offers is all encompassing and is both spiritual and physical and a sign between God's people and Him.

    The counterfeit sabbath of satan, SUNday has been the perfect trojan horse to lead people away from obedience to God and at the end of time Revelation 13 tells us satan will use the beast, to enforce a global counterfeit worship system.

    God calls His people out of this false system Revelation 18:4 and this includes rejecting the counterfeit sabbath day.
  • Charrisse Thompson - In Reply on Isaiah 58 - 2 years ago
    Continued Hebrews 4

    What is the Gospel message in it's entirety?

    We are saved by grace through faith and sanctified by the Holy Spirit who changes our character and imputes Christ's righteousness to us so that we may be obedient to God's law - we cannot do it in own strength and we are not saved by doing it. We are motivated to do this firstly because we love God and then out of a consequence of being saved.

    Revelation 14:12 describes God's people as follows ' Here is the patience of the saints, Here are they that keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus Christ'.

    Keeping the Moral of Law of God does not save us, only Grace does. Revelation 14:12 tells of a people who faithfully endure to keep the commandments of God as an outcome of faith. Jesus says in John chapter 15:10 - 10If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

    Furthermore Paul clarifies the relationship between Grace, Law and obedience - Romans 6:1

    1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

    God's last day remnant people are also identified in Revelation 12:17 - And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    Satan in these final days is waging one last mighty global war against God's law to establish his false kingdom, challenging God's authority and His last remnant children who keep the commandments of God and whose lives testify that they belong to Jesus which testify to His renewing power and miraculous changing of human character from one of being sin sick to

    living in freedom in the spirit and obedience to God.
  • Charrisse Thompson - In Reply on Isaiah 58 - 2 years ago
    Continued Hebrews 4

    The Moral law contains the Love and legal code God has for His Universe and beloved children. It is;

    Written in stone by God's own finger - Exodus 31:18, Deuteronomy 4:12-13, 9:10

    Has always existed & will be kept throughout eternity and throughout all the universe - Psalm 111:7,8, Romans 5:19 refers to Adam sinning in the Garden of Eden

    Jesus said He did not come to destroy it but to fulfil it - Matt 5:17 - 19

    Jesus said 'If you love me keep my commandments' John 14:15 and that 'He is the Lord of the Sabbath - Mark 2:28 - yet never mentions it being dissolved or changed

    God's people are commanded to keep the Commandments of God for all eternity & God's people are identified by it because they keep it out of love to God and by faith - Exodus 19:5, Ecclesiastes 12:13,14, Psalm 111:7,8, Revelation 14:12, 12:17

    Lives in the heart of God's children - Psalms 40:8

    We are judged by them - James 2:12

    Blessed with access to the Tree of Life if you keep them by faith - Revelation 22:14
  • Charrisse Thompson - In Reply on Isaiah 58 - 2 years ago
    Page 2

    b. Colossians 2:16

    Your reference to including the 7th day weekly Sabbath in with the Mosaic sabbaths (plural) included in ordinances of the Law of Moses does not stand up to close scrutiny.

    The italic of the 'days' in verse 16 emphasizes the plurality of the multiple sabbaths in the law of Moses which is distinct to the Moral 10 commandment law of God.

    Most respectfully your reference to Colossians 2:14-17 is a mish mash including an implied reference to Hebrews chapters 10:1 and a misrepresentation of Colossians chapter 2's application only to the law of Moses..

    The entire paragraph starting at Colossian 2:14 and ending in verse 17 clearly shows that the reference Paul is making is limited to the 'Handwriting of ordinances' which was contrary to us, nailing it to His cross'. The reference confirmed in verse 16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days" is a clear reference to the law of Moses and limits this reference only to the Law of Moses and NOT the Moral 10 Commandment Law of God.

    How do we know this for sure? Because the Law of Moses was:

    Written by Moses using a scribe who wrote on paper using handwriting of The book - Deuteronomy 31:24

    Contains the codes for ordinances & ceremonies (including feast & Holy days etc), sacrificial ceremony, health, civil laws, treatment of animals, treatment of slaves etc - Leviticus 18: 3 & 4, 1 Corinthians 9:9

    Whereas the 10 commandment Moral of God makes no reference to Drinks, meat offerings, ordinances, new moons or an holy day and does not contain multiple sabbaths - but the Law of Moses contains ALL of these.

    The reference you make to Colossians 2 verse 17 again confirms that this cannot refer to the Moral law of God and therefore cannot include the weekly sabbath as being nailed to the cross.

    How so? Because as you say it was 'a shadow' - this shadow of a law concept links this scripture verse 17 with Hebrews 10:1
  • Charrisse Thompson - In Reply on Isaiah 58 - 2 years ago
    Page 1

    In reply to your question Chris what Scriptures would you use to show that Noah or Abraham observed the Sabbath?

    There are none directly for Noah but there is for Abraham but we can deduce how the

    knowledge of God's will and law was passed down from Adam to Noah and then

    subsequently to Abraham and up to and before Moses.

    Noah was born just 10 generations from Adam to a Godly family and was well recognised

    for being perfect in his generations, for his trust in God and humble faith Genesis

    6:11-9:19).

    It is very likely that Noah had been instructed in the knowledge of God. But by whom?

    Enoch was Noah's great Grandfather and was the special friend of God who was translated

    to heaven - He walked with God.

    Enoch was a descendant of Adam through the Seth line and Adam was still alive when

    Enoch was a young man. Given that the Sabbath was established and sanctified in Eden at

    the end of creation week ( Genesis 2: 1-3, Exodus 20:11) it is worthy and logical to consider

    that God taught Adam the requirement to keep the Holy law of God including the 7th day

    Sabbath and who then would have taught his descendants.

    The direct reference to Abraham keeping God's commandments before the Law being given to Moses is here: Genesis 26:5 - 'Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes and my laws'.
  • Bro dan - In Reply on Isaiah 58 - 2 years ago
    Hi Charrisse,

    Amen. Very well stated, including the scripture you presented regarding the need for present day Christians to observe the 7th day Sabbath.

    Contrary to what many modern day Christians profess, Paul did NOT change the 7th Day Sabbath. Paul didn't teach a different gospel of law or grace than Jesus Christ and the other apostles. Paul and the Apostle's totally respected and followed God's commandments - per the scriptures, and Paul always displayed total respect for the Sabbath Day - per the scripture!

    Paul's teaching of the early churches included both Jews and Gentiles, and regularly took place on the 7th day Sabbath. The scriptures PROVE that Paul personally kept the 7th day Sabbath, and he certainly taught the Gentiles to do the same. Paul did not teach a different gospel or different approach to the law or grace from what Jesus Christ and the other apostles taught.

    The churches-whether made up of Jews or Gentiles, that were established by Paul and the other Apostles observed the Sabbath.

    Acts 13:42

    "And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath."

    Acts 13:44

    "And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God."

    Those that feel that Jesus/God or Paul changed the requirement to no longer follow God's Commandments including the 7th Day Sabbath, is not supported by the scripture.

    God Bless.
  • Chris - In Reply on Isaiah 58 - 2 years ago
    Page 2.

    Romans 10:2-5: "For I bear them record that they (Israel) have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them."

    Again, "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth". To all who put their trust in Jesus, Christ's coming ended the Law that should have brought righteousness but failed. Nothing wrong with the Law - the problem was with man. The Law failed to achieve it - but faith in Christ & a new birth did, ending the demands of the Law that only brought death.

    And there can't be any syncretism, coming under both the Law & under God's Grace. We cannot be justified by the Law - even keeping or trying to keep one Law & still claim Grace. Galatians 5:4; Romans 4:13,14. And the keeping of the Sabbath is just one of the ten Laws. Whoever wants to keep the Law is bound to keep them perfectly (all ten of them) James 2:10 - and there remains no avenue to claim Grace when under the Law.

    May we walk in the Spirit, obeying the Spirit, that the righteousness of the Law might be fulfilled in us ( Romans 8:4) and not bound to the letter ( Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6). The Sabbath Rest is not found in a day set aside for physical rest, but in a Person Whom we have sanctified in our hearts & lives. Blessings.
  • Chris - In Reply on Isaiah 58 - 2 years ago
    Page 1.

    Thank you for your response Charrisse. As much as I appreciated the manner in which you presented your arguments, I would raise the following:

    a. what Scriptures would you use to show that Noah or Abraham observed the Sabbath?

    b. Colossians 2:16: "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days" (days in italics). In the Greek, it is written as 'Sabbaths'. And though there was the 7th day Sabbath, there were also other five other Sabbaths that were observed. I believe that all five plus the 7th Day were referred to here, but Paul is stating that not observing these things (in v16) should not dismay them as those under judgement from others. Why? Verse 17: "Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ": all these (food, drink, moons, Sabbaths) were only a shadow - Jesus removed that shadow, fulfilling all things.

    c. Which then leads us to Hebrews chapter 4, where many Israelites died having failed to enter into Rest (the Promised Land) because of their unbelief. Then we read that, as God rested on the 7th Day (v4), there must be a future day of rest for His people. Joshua (v8) couldn't give them that rest even though many made it through to Canaan. Even David (coming after Joshua), spoke of God promising another day of rest (for those who've not hardened their hearts as earlier): vv6-8; Psalm 95:7-11. "There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God" (v9).

    d. So are we talking about a Sabbath Rest here or a Spiritual Rest that would come to those who no longer are wearily trying to justify themselves before God by trusting in the Law to be acceptable? The Rest those in Christ now enjoy have not only crucified the flesh but have their trust & hope in the One Who was crucified for them, to put an end to the Law that only brought death & punishment & never gave Rest.
  • Charrisse Thompson - In Reply on Isaiah 58 - 2 years ago
    In reply to Chris and Giannis

    Remember the Sabbath, and keep it holy is the 4th Commandment of God?

    Gen 2:2-3- And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

    And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

    The Sabbath was a Commandment before Mt Sinai and was kept and taught by Noah, Abraham, Moses and Israel, EVEN before the finger of God wrote the 10 Commandments. Gods Commandments are just that, Commandments not Recommendations. As for Col 2:16, notice it says'Sabbath Days" plural. This relates to all the Sabbath Days celebrated that no longer have any significance to God, that is why the Law of Moses was nailed to the cross, not Gods 4th Commandment. Throughout Gods Word He speaks about keeping His Commandments, this includes the 4th Commandment.

    Fourth Commandment: Jesus set the example for us of keeping the seventh-day Sabbath ( Luke 4:16), as did the apostle Paul ( Acts 17:2). After Jesus' death, the author of the book of Hebrews confirmed that worshipping on this day continues to be expected of Christians ( Hebrews 4:9).

    Jesus said " The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath

    Mark 2:27,28

    Matt 5:17-19 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

    For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

    Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

    John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

    God bless
  • Chris - In Reply on Isaiah 58 - 2 years ago
    Fully agree bro Giannis. In respect to Colossians 2:14, "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross", I would also add Ephesians 2:15, "Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace".

    Whether referring to the "handwriting of ordinances" or "the law of commandments contained in ordinances", you would know that the same word is used, 'dogmasin' (decrees, edicts, ordinances). It's sometimes claimed that only those 'other' commandments have been abolished by virtue of the Cross & not the Decalogue. Though there was nothing wrong or at fault with any of God's Commandments ( Romans 7:12), it's present application & implications have ceased, because Christ's Sacrifice has nailed it ALL on the Cross. If they were still applicable & to be obeyed to prove obedience, then it shows that Jesus' Death didn't work towards salvation & God's Gift of Grace is a non-event & the whole Plan was a failure. ( Romans 8:3).

    But our only attendance now is to Jesus & to His Spirit Who brings out the fullness of God's Requirements for His Blood-bought, giving us both the desire & power to learn & apply them to every situation in life. Therefore, sins of murder, theft, adultery, etc. are no longer clear finite physical acts of transgression, but now the Spirit tells us that they find their root in the heart & can even encompass a much wider range of applications than what is implied in the Decalogue. Jesus came to deal with the heart of sin, not the head knowledge of it. Using any of the commandments as a yardstick of our obedience has limited use for knowledge of Jewish laws & requirements. They have no bearing on the Jew or Gentile who has come to the Cross & under the New Covenant ( Hebrews 8:6,7,13). Blessings brother.
  • Giannis - In Reply on Isaiah 58 - 2 years ago
    Dear Robert

    I don't think I agree with you.

    Let's see the verse you quoted.

    Collosians 2:16

    "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"

    What does this really mean? We'll see.

    Next verse, no. 17 states "Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ"

    Shadows of what things? My opinion is that implies the NT, that is why he is referring to the body of Christ, which is the church.

    Please read what is written next, ie verses 20-22 "Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,(Touch not; taste not; handle not;Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?"

    So I think it's obvious that it is written that we are not to be judged for NOT keeping all those things, including Sabbath, and not the other way around.

    Please also see Galatians 4:9-10, it is relevant. It actually talks about the same thing "But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years."

    Those days, months, years, meat, drink, holydays, new moon, Sabbath, all these things from the OT are shadow for the things that would come, and came as the New Testament.

    As a final point lets read Acts 15 when Paul and Barnabas met with the rest of the apostles in Jerusalem to talk about whether christians are to obey anything from the Law of Moses eg circumcision. The conclusion was to keep away only from "v29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication29

    That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and well. Fare ye well." They decided the only things according to the OT that we should keep as christians are for idolatry, for blood and for fornication.

    With respect.

    GBU
  • Dav47 - In Reply on Isaiah 58 - 2 years ago
    in Col 2:16 Paul was speaking as teachers we have to be careful with new converts for they might get offended, we have to lead them gently into Christianity as not to run them off. All these things in this verse were of people who practiced Pagan religions.

    As Christians we should always go by the solar calendar that never changes, we are of the light not of lunar.

    15th day after spring equinox is Passover, usually March 20 or 21; 1st full moon of spring is spring equinox. 14 days because Jewish day begins at sundown. After Passover-50 days later plus the 14 days before Passover 7 sets of 50 so 14 +(7 x 50)= 364 a solar year.

    CHRIST had told them HE would send the HOLY SPIRIT and give them power on this day as a help meat when this happens 50 days after Passover, CHRIST who became our sacrificial Lamb. CHRIST who became our Passover: 1Cor 5:7

    In Leviticus 23:2 God tells us, "These are My appointed festivals, the appointed festivals of the Lord, which you are to proclaim as sacred assemblies. Sabbath means rest-CHRIST became our great Sabbath (Passover) we worship HIM everyday, not 1 day a week.

    50 in Biblical numeric s is the number for Jubilee or deliverance.
  • Albert Hernandez - In Reply on Isaiah 58 - 2 years ago
    We must keep the Sabbath day, "Saturday". We must keep the Sabbath day Holy. The Sabbath day was sanctified and blessed by The Mighty God of ALL creation. No other day of the week was blessed. And it is for ALL humans, Jews and Gentiles alike. "It is the Sabbath of the Lord your God", said God himself at the completion of creation week; Exodus 20:10. No Jews were, until the seed of Judah. Any true follower of Christ lives as Christ lived, and taught us to as well. There are over 116 bible verses pertaining to the Sabbath day. There need be no confusion. Either believe in man-made Ideas or Believe in GOD, through HIS word. Me? I Believe God.
  • ROBERT MCKAY - In Reply on Isaiah 58 - 2 years ago
    Hi Giannis. Colossians 2:16 proclaims very clearly to not Judge others for the Sabbath (or any Holy day) in which they choose to celebrate, or whether or not they even keep the Sabbath in honor of God. In the 5992 years of Creation since Adam, God's New Moon's have not changed; His Sabbath has not changed; and His obligations for us as New Testament believers is very clear on the issue of keeping the Sabbath Holy. Respectfully Giannis, Colossians 2:16 is not matter of your own interpretation. Best, Robert
  • Giannis - In Reply on Isaiah 58 - 2 years ago
    Dear Robert

    The verse you mentioned from Galatians says to us the other way around from what you are implying. It states that we, christians, must not let others criticize us for not keeping the Sabbath as the Jews were. Sabbath is not a christian holiday or a holly day. We do not celebrate Sabbath, we simply have Saturday. The early christians since the time of apostles chose Sunday, that is the first day of the week as the day for the formal congregation of believers, simply because on that day Jesus Christ was ressurected. Of course a church can choose any other day for that, it is not compulsory to be Sunday, I believe. But since Sunday is weekend and nobody works, I think it is the most suitable day for that.
  • Robert on Isaiah 58 - 2 years ago
    The Bible teaches us that Sabbath is based on the lunar cycle and the original Hebrew Calendar: New Moon is Day 1, and Sabbaths are Days 8, 15, 22, and 29. The actual Sabbath is neither Saturday or Sunday - That said, worship God on whatever day you want, and stop condemning others who worship their Sabbath on their own days and times ( Colossians 2:16).
  • Mishael - In Reply on Isaiah 58 - 2 years ago
    This is what John Wesley Commentary wrote of Isaiah 3-14

    A fast is a day to afflict the soul; if it does not express true sorrow for sin, and does not promote the putting away of sin, it is not a fast. These professors had shown sorrow on stated or occasioned fasts. But they indulged pride, covetousness, and malignant passions. To be liberal and merciful is more acceptable to God than mere fasting, which, without them, is vain and hypocritical. Many who seem humble in God's house, are hard at home, and harass their families. But no man's faith justifies, which does not work by love. Yet persons, families, neighbourhoods, churches, or nations, show repentance and sorrow for sin, by keeping a fast sincerely, and, from right motives, repenting, and doing good works. The heavy yoke of sin and oppression must be removed. As sin and sorrow dry the bones and weaken the strongest human constitution; so the duties of kindness and charity strengthen and refresh both body and mind. Those who do justly and love mercy, shall have the comfort, even in this world. Good works will bring the blessing of God, provided they are done from love to God and man, and wrought in the soul by the Holy Spirit.
  • GiGi again - In Reply on Isaiah 58 - 2 years ago
    Paisley, Glad it helped some. Have a good night.
  • Paisley - In Reply on Isaiah 58 - 2 years ago
    Thank you so much for sharing that with me. It really helped me understand the passage more.


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