Numbers Chapter 13 Discussion



 
  • Jema - In Reply on Numbers 13:30 - 1 year ago
    Very well said David , thankyou so much , I agree with everything you said . From my own reading of the entire Bible , I have discovered that many things that Christians adhere to as doctrines , are not in fact Biblical . It's so very important , for anyone who wants to draw closer to the Only Great God Almighty , the Holy One of Israel , to start off with no preconceptions . Start at Genesis , read it all and then , read it all again and again and again for the rest of your life . The Bible is the most perfectly harmonious book , anyone who doesn't realise this hasn't read all of it often enough . Every single book is as valid as every other . Everything God does and says is in perfect harmony with everything else that He does and says . The problem is with us humans , coming to His Word with our own agendas and preconceptions . Many of my beliefs are things that I would never ever discuss on this site as I would probably be hounded off here . My faith in and love for my God and His Son grows stronger and stronger with every time that I read the entire Bible . May God bless us all with open hearts and minds and may He make us all His forever . God bless you David .
  • David0921 - In Reply on Numbers 13:30 - 1 year ago
    Hello again Mr. Spencer,

    I understand your desire not to get into a discussion of Dispensationalism and how God deals with mankind, in particular the Nation of Israel throughout history, past present and future, in this thread. So I will respect that desire. I will just say this...

    The fundamental question we all must face even before we start talking about "doctrine" is the nature of the Bible and how we are to go about interpreting it. I have tried to be very clear in many of my posts as to what i believe the Bible itself declares about this question. In its simplest terms it is the BIBLE ALONE AND IN ITS ENTIRITY is the ONLY WORD OF GOD. This means that God Himself is the AUTHOR of the entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation. And that every word, every phrase, every passage, every historical event, every future event, is recorded in exactly the manner that God chose to record it. It means that if we want to correctly understand any doctrine in the Bible we must look at any and every passage in the entire Bible that relates to that doctrine. And until we have found HARMONY with all those verses and passage, we have not come to Truth. We are not comparing the writings of Paul with the writings of Peter or Jeremiah or Isaiah or any other human author when we do this; we are comparing in all cases the Word of God with the Word of God. And we can and should be looking to see how God uses a word of phrase in Jeremiah or Exodus with how He uses similar words and phrases in Mark or Romans or Revelations.

    Furthermore, this means that the Bible is its OWN INTERPRETER, and the more we allow outside understandings or principals to influence our interpretation process the further from Truth we will be led. The Bible itself lays down the principals we are to use in Biblical interpretation. I've tried to lay those out in previous posts. I do not find the Historical-Grammatical method of interpretation, to pick on the most common, outlined anywhere in the Bible.
  • S Spencer - In Reply on Numbers 13:30 - 1 year ago
    Hi again David.

    I meant to say Sorry but I'm not wanting to turn what Gigi started a couple of years ago as a summary through the OT into a debate about when and where the Millennium exists.

    God bless.
  • S Spencer - In Reply on Numbers 13:30 - 1 year ago
    Hi David.

    Sorry but I'm not wanting to turn what Gigi started a couple of years ago as a summary through the OT.

    I'm emphasizing how God deals with them as a Nation as he do us today. ( With mercy for his name sake.) He will complete what he started! He's not a man where he lies or repent. This will be illustrated in Ch 23 vs 19 "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

    The fact that God decided to continue his promises with the next generation "kids 20 years and below" and continue to carry them on eagles wings in the wilderness emphasis he's committed to carrying on with his promises and dealing with them as a Nation as part of his redemption plan.

    That's the same kind of display of commitment and faithfulness he has for his Church.

    We're a stiff neck people as well who has the spirit INSIDE US! so we should be encouraged by God not abandoning Israel.

    We should consider

    Hebrews 10:29-31. and

    Romans 11:18-20.

    I've read and studied Hebrews 11 and interpret those verses perhaps slightly different than you and don't care to get into that on this thread.

    However I will leave you with this, How they are to pray.

    Luke 11:2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. THY KINGDOM COME. Thy will be done, AS IN HEAVEN, SO IN EARTH.

    This haven't happened yet.

    I'll be leaving this thread for now.

    God bless.
  • David0921 - In Reply on Numbers 13:30 - 1 year ago
    Mr. Spencer,

    I would encourage you to read Hebrews 11 very carefully.

    The "Land" that was promised to Abraham is the New Heavens and New Earth which is the Promised Land for every True Believer.

    Hebrews 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

    Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

    Hebrews 11:14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

    Hebrews 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

    Hebrews 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
  • S Spencer - In Reply on Numbers 13:30 - 1 year ago
    You're welcome Gigi.

    Look how God's longsuffering and everlasting mercy plays a role in the Nation!

    Here's a few points that's often overlooked in this portion of scripture.

    Israel was already given the law at this time, however the keeping of the law played no role in them entering the promise land.

    Lack of faith did.

    There were no requirements on their part but to trust in the unconditional promises God gave to Abraham.

    It's God's reputation and ability to provide those promises was and still is on display.

    As we look ahead into Ch 14 we see Moses making intercession for Israel by God's promises, "Not Israel's faithfulness"

    Notice Numbers 14:11-16.

    Today the Church has joined this group in their mockery of God's promises!

    God could have ended it right there but he made Promises to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob "who's later named Israel" that he will make a nation out of them and they would inherit a Land that he laid out.

    That's important because they have NEVER possessed all the Land. But they will!

    Look at the means by which Moses petition God on the behalf of Israel in Numbers 14:17-

    And now, I beseech thee, let the power of my LORD be great, according as thou hast spoken, saying,

    The LORD is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.

    Pardon, I beseech thee, the iniquity of THIS PEOPLE according unto the greatness of thy mercy, and as thou hast forgiven THIS PEOPLE, from Egypt even until now.

    The Nation of Israel is given mercy and inheritance as God's first born.

    Exodus 4:22.

    Isaiah 14:1-2.

    Hosea 2:23.

    According to Paul he's not done with them and the promises will be fulfilled to them as a Nation and first born.

    Romans 10:19-21 through

    Romans 11:1-4.

    Conclusion.

    Romans 11:30-32.

    God bless.
  • GiGi - In Reply on Numbers 13:30 - 1 year ago
    Thank you S. Spencer

    Just to clarify, my last statement was referring to the generation of Israelites that had been delivered from Egypt. These people did not enter into the land because of their unbelief. They "blew it". However, their unbelief did not nullify God's promise to Abraham.

    The Israelites who were younger than 20 at the time and who wandered in the wilderness with their unbelieving parents for 40 more years did enter the land promised and possessed in under the leadership of Joshua and Caleb.

    The unbelief of the Israelites at the time of the sending out of the 12 spies did not thwart God's plan for the people of Abraham. He is able to fulfill His will in the lives of all people because He is sovereign over all. He knows all things past present and future. He works all things out according to His purpose.
  • S Spencer - In Reply on Numbers 13:30 - 1 year ago
    Goodmorning Gigi.

    Thanks for the provided summary on Israels failure to entering into the promise land.

    I would like to share something based on your last statement.

    ( It is a very sad time for the people God had delivered from bondage. Though they were chosen as a people to receive great promises and benefits from being God's covenant people. They blew it royally at the time they were closest to entering in.)

    When we look at Genesis 15:7-18 we learn that God covenant was unconditional, In fact Verse 18 shows us that God has already gave them the land.

    vs 18) "In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, UNTO THY SEED HAVE I GIVEN THIS LAND, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

    They had to possess it by faith!

    That's the lesson and example for all the world to see!

    Also what's important to note is God's word is at stake. Moses makes mention of that later in scripture.

    Israel couldn't enter in because of unbelief.

    Hebrews ch's 3 and 4 hammers away at this.

    But notice Hebrews 4:7-9. Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

    For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

    There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

    God bless
  • GiGi on Numbers 13:30 - 1 year ago
    NUMBERS CHAPTER 13

    Continued...

    Caleb believed God and that God would fulfill what He promised to the nation of Israel. Joshua, also, believed God as Caleb did. These two men had faith that could "move mountains". They were faithful servants to God and trustworthy leaders for Moses to depend on.

    Even so, the nation decided to not go and take the land. They wavered in faith in YHWH to deliver them from the giants and the well fortified cities and warriors of the cities. They looked at the situation through the lens of practical analysis, determining that their nation was not strong enough to conquer and possess the land.

    They failed to believe that the land would be given to them by supernatural means by the hand of YHWH and the strength that He would have given the people to destroy the peoples of the land as they went in to possess it. They counted the cost and calculated that they were no match for the giants and armies in the land. But God was desiring to show them His amazing power and favor by bringing down these giants and armies when the men of Israel moved forward in the might and protection of the Mighty One of Israel.

    How disappointed Moses must have been at the failure of the spies to believe God for victory over the peoples of the land promised to them. But Caleb and Joshua proved that they were the ones who could lead this people, not the other 10 chiefs.

    This decision of the people based on the negative report was very evil and costly to them. They forfeited their opportunity to enter the land but instead ended up dying in the wilderness. (everyone from the age of 20 and older never entered the promised land. Only Caleb and Joshua did so of the generation that left Egypt that was 20 years old or more.

    It is a very sad time for the people God had delivered from bondage. Though they were chosen as a people to receive great promises and benefits from being God's covenant people. They blew it royally at the time they were closest to entering in.
  • GiGi on Numbers 13:30 - 1 year ago
    NUMBERS CHAPTER 13

    In this chapter, Moses sends twelve men to be spies to check out the land promised to this nation. Each man was a leader/chief of their tribe, one who was respected and determined to be trustworthy.

    These men went up into the land. At Hebron they saw the three sons of Anak who were giants in stature and strength. The spies noted that the cities were well fortified and able to defend against an attack.

    They also collected food samples to bring back to the camp to show the fruitfulness of the land (as God had promised it to be). They stayed in the land for forty days, getting much information to bring back to the people in the camp.

    The Israelites were camped just south of the border of Canaan. They were still in the wilderness area. They could not see the promised land from where they were camped. Perhaps there was a range of hills to block their view.

    The men returned to camp and gave a mixed report to the people saying that the land was indeed fruitful and desirable for farming and raising livestock and for dwelling. But 10 of the men spoke negatively about the strength and stature of some of the inhabitants. They spoke words of doubt concerning their ability to take the land since God was with them and had delivered them miraculously since leaving Egypt.

    The people had just celebrated a year of travel in the wilderness and camping at Mt. Sinai. Now they were as close as they could get to stepping into the land promised. But the report of the giants in the land and the fortifications of the cities caused the people to decide not to enter the land. They believed the report of men instead of the Word of God that promised them this land. The people were wishy washy about their trust and commitment to YHWH. This event tested their faith and they failed this test.

    Caleb spoke up telling the people that they would be able to take the land from the inhabitants because God had promised the land to them.
  • Chris - In Reply on Numbers 13 - 1 year ago
    Hello Edna. Numbers 13:27-30 ties in with the rest of this chapter. Briefly, Moses had called in the leaders of each of the twelve tribes (plus Joshua) to go and spy out the land (Canaan) before them prior to them proceeding to conquer it.

    So they went out & brought out a dual report. One, that it truly was a "land that floweth with milk and honey" (i.e. a phrase used to denote a very fertile & abundant land), so it was a land that would be very useful for them for their cattle & agriculture. Though secondly, it was also a land that had tall and strong men there, with fortified cities which could easily overpower them. Eleven of those leaders brought in this report & advised that they should not proceed because they would be defeated. But only one amongst them, Caleb of Judah, who also saw what the other men saw, but Caleb also saw his God who had promised them this land & would supernaturally overcome these great & powerful people.

    You can read the aftermath of this incident in the next chapter, where both Caleb & Joshua rent their clothes in dismay because of the faithlessness of the people, and the LORD commended Caleb, saying, "But my servant Caleb, because he had another spirit with him, and hath followed me fully, him will I bring into the land whereinto he went; and his seed shall possess it" ( Numbers 14:24). I hope this short comment will help you understand what was happening at that time.
  • Edna Scott on Numbers 13 - 1 year ago
    whatis the meaning of numbers 13:27_30
  • GiGi - In Reply on Numbers 13 - 1 year ago
    Hi Jo Ann,

    If and when we capture a Sasquatch or find an intact remains to identify it, we can then collect DNA and determine if it is a human or an animal (if it truly exists even). Until then we will not know how it fits into the phylums and classifications of species and how they are related to other organisms.

    My view is that these giants were completely human, yet God allowed genes within their DNA makeup to be expressed and have them grow very large and have extra digits on their hands and feet, also extra rows of teeth.
  • Jo Ann Peterson on Numbers 13 - 1 year ago
    Could these giants be the Sasquatch people that are often seen today?
  • Shirley n. sotto on Numbers 13 - 2 years ago
    Remember that God will take care of His promised of deliverance no matter what the circumstances ,God never lie.
  • Richard H Priday on Numbers 13 - 2 years ago
    This chapter involves the initial searching out of the land of Canaan by one person designated from each of the tribes. This went on for forty days. Apparently; there was indeed the abundance of "milk and honey" (v. 27); with the abundance of fruit demonstrated to be found in verses 23-26. Among the nationalities represented there were the "children of Anak" (v. 28; 32-33). These were giants; descendants of the hybrid races of fallen angels with women-just one group of many who were throughout the area the Lord had given to Israel as their possession.

    None of this; of course was any surprise to God. Caleb along with Joshua were the ONLY two recorded of the WHOLE multitude that had departed from Egypt 40 years prior that had survived the wilderness because of the iniquity-this was despite God's providence for that WHOLE time of the manna; AND the shoes never wearing out despite the arid and hot conditions in the desert. Trusting the Lord clearly gave Caleb a completely different perspective where he stated that they were WELL able to overcome it; that is take over. When the Lord devotes something to destruction it is a done deal. He would fight for His children; as He had demonstrated before against Pharaoh and his armies.

    The consequences of half-heartedness resulted in a further delay in the conquest; in fact the whole area promised to Israel has yet to this day not been taken over; that will be complete in the Millennium; although perhaps the Psalm 83 war may further facilitate this process in the meantime. Time and time again it was idolotry and sin that caused the Jewish nation to live in unbelief. Despite all this; He is faithful. Praise the Lord for that.
  • Sacha - In Reply on Numbers 13 - 3 years ago
    Hi Skip ,ive always thought that in this instance the rock is simon peters confession 'thou art the Christ ,the Son of the living God ' .
  • SkipVought - In Reply on Numbers 13 - 3 years ago
    Osagie,

    "And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." Mat 16:17-18

    Simon had just declared his belief that Jesus was "The Christ, the Son of the living God."

    Jesus replied to him him saying, "That thou art Peter [Petras, a stone], and upon this rock [Petra, a rock] I will build my church."

    Peter was named Simon, son of Jona. Jesus was making a play on the word Petra by giving him a nickname. Peter is a little rock. Jesus is a Foundation ROCK. The church is built on Jesus.

    Later "Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The STONE which the builders rejected, the same is become the HEAD of the CORNER: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?" Mat 21:42

    After Jesus ascended, Peter asserted, "Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a CHIEF CORNER STONE, elect, precious: and he that believeth on Him shall not be confounded." 1Pe 2:6
  • Osagie victor on Numbers 13 - 3 years ago
    Hello please i have two question to has

    1. Is Apostle Peter the Rocks

    2. Who is the Rock and please give me two references of the Scriptures
  • Perry DEGONIA on Numbers 13 - 3 years ago
    Y do people want to argue the books of the bible. what we all need to be is people for christ. and help each other if not saved help all to receive jesus. time is running out prayers for all and most of all the ones that think they don't need it
  • Evil Reports - In Reply on Numbers 13:21 - 3 years ago
    Numbers 13

    31But the men that went up with him said, We be not able to go up against the people; for they are stronger than we.

    32 And they brought up an EVIL REPORT of the land which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature.

    33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.

    They got in trouble for bringing an evil and Negative Report. They did not see God as their Leader or Protector in Battle.

    The same thing happens when a doctor brings us an evil report. You can lay back and die or you can rise up in the Strength of God and fire out some scripture on healing,

    Favor of God; Psalm 23. Rest in Gods love and care for you.
  • Abe Williams on Numbers 13:21 - 3 years ago
    What is so significant about numbers 13:21?
  • Stanjett on Numbers 13 - 4 years ago
    We have giants now days. Just look at the NBA basket ball players. Or look up giants on your computer. There was one I think lived or may still live in Russia over 7 foot tall and weighs around 400 pounds. some even taller.
  • Angela asberry on Numbers 13 - 4 years ago
    My through of this chapter talks about how we can let what we see or hear put fear in us and case our faith
  • Janet on Numbers 13 - 5 years ago
    V. 30 Do you trust in the authenticity of God? Have you claimed His promises?
    Father, thank You for Your never ending promises in our lives.
  • Joshua on Numbers 13 - 5 years ago
    DR, the book of Enoch is not in the Bible for a reason. It is false and dangerous.
  • DR on Numbers 13 - 5 years ago
    Gina is absolutely correct read your Bibles people for yourself. Genesis 6:1-4, book of Joshua ect. most churches are giving you a super watered down version of the truth. There are no aliens, its the Fallen Angels just like the Bible is telling us about, I have read the Bible cover to cover and the old testament was always hard for me to understand certain things,all I can say is read 1 Enoch
  • AWOJ on Numbers 13 - 5 years ago
    Gina is correct, A Disciple. giants were the offspring of angels and earthly women, however as the giants were destroyed, there is no way the giants of this land were their descendants. i bring this down to the fact that the evil reports were so tinted with fear that they overlooked this simple truth. we must never let fear get in the way of doing what Jehovah requires.
  • Thomas Hiatt on Numbers 13 - 5 years ago
    And those who issued the evil report were not allowed to enter the promised land,
  • BSP on Numbers 13 - 5 years ago
    Verses 1,2~God commanded Moses to send out men to spy out the land and these were just any men, they were the chieftains. Their words held weight.


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