Numbers Chapter 14 Discussion



 
  • GIGI on Numbers 14 - 1 year ago
    NUMBERS CH. 14

    PART 4

    ...to the top of a mountain, saying that they will now go in and take the land promised, because they had sinned. They realized that they had sinned against God by believing the evil report and not trusting God to deliver the land to them. But now they were ready to go into the land and possess it. So, this is what their "repentance" looked like. After they had heard from Moses all that God had said would happen to them, they then were willing to go into the promised land instead of dying in the wilderness.

    Moses tells them to not go into the land because the LORD will not go with them. He had decreed that all these people would die in the wilderness and He would not go back on that decree. Moses tells them that the Amalekites and Canaanites are waiting with their swords and they will be slain right off the bat because they had turned from the LORD and He will not protect them nor go with them to conquer.

    But the people PRESUMED and went up the mountain, but the Amalekites and Canaanites came down the mountain to smote them. The Israelites could not advance into the promised land due to their presence and strength. Thus ends this chapter.

    The word "PRESUMED" is a big word meaning that the people thought that the LORD would surely help them because they were His people. But they were going to do what the LORD disallowed (entering to the land) and their presumption brought them defeat at the hands of the Amalekites and Canaanites.

    We, too, need to be careful of presuming on the Lord that He will spare us or help us or bless us when we step ahead into a sinful way just because we believe. We need to seek His will, not our own and be always thankful and grateful for His mercy, grace, and relationship with us even as we are still sinners.

    This chapter in Numbers is very instructive to us in many ways. I have gleaned a few lessons from it. I hope some of you will read it for yourselves and discover what the Holy Spirit brings forth to you.
  • GIGI on Numbers 14 - 1 year ago
    NUMBERS CHAPTER 14

    PT. 3

    The LORD says to Moses, "I have pardoned according to thy word; But as truly as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the LORD. Because all those men which have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, and have not harkened to my voice, surely they shall not see the land which I swore to their fathers, neither shall any of them that have provoked me see it.:

    Moses is a friend of God. They can reason together because God condescends to hear Moses and consider what he says, not to gain any advice or be softened by Moses' intercession but to reward His friend, Moses, for seeking Him with all of His heart, soul, mind, and strength; for Moses continuing to lead the people as God called him to do; for Moses having a deep love and genuine concern for this nation of people that God has chosen. God knew Moses' heart, all of the thoughts he would ever think or speak, yet the LORD desires to hear Moses and answer his prayers for this rebellious people. How favored Moses was, yet with this favor came great responsibility.

    The LORD goes on to say that only Caleb and Joshua, and all of the chidren younger than 20 years old will enter the promised land. The rest of the people will die in the wilderness as they will wander 1 year for every day the leaders were spying out the land. In forty years, all of the people of Israel over 20 years old will die in the wilderness, except Joshua and Caleb. Moses must have realized that he and Aaron will also die in the wilderness. God was giving the people what they had murmured in God's ear about, dying in the wilderness rather than entering the promised land. (vs. 28). To the men who brought the evil report, God put upon them a plague that killed them swiftly.

    The people mourned when they heard from Moses all that the LORD had said. But this was mourning without repentance. The next morning ...,cont.
  • GiGi on Numbers 14 - 1 year ago
    NUMBERS CHAPTER 14

    ...CONT.

    Instead of heeding what Moses and Aaron pleaded for them to do, the people were ready to stone Moses, Aaron, Joshua, and Caleb to death.

    At this moment the glory of the LORD appeared in the tabernacle before the people, speaking to Moses :How long will this people provoke me? and how long will it be ere they believe me, for all the signs which I have shewed them? I will spite them with pestilence. and disinherit them, and will make of thee a greater nation and mightier than they."

    The people had, in just a little over a year, murmured and grumbled and complained and turned away from the LORD many, many times, even though they had agreed to the Sinai covenant. These people received mercy upon mercy from the LORD. He was willing to forgive them over and over again. Even so, all of these sinful occasions provoked God to bring severe judgment upon them, and He had every right to do so. Each time, Moses pleaded with the LORD to be merciful and to stay with this people. God listened to Moses and accepted his intercessory work on behalf of the people. This time God was not only wanting to punish the people, but disinherit them too, and He had every right to do so.

    Moses, once again, pleaded with the LORD, speaking to the point that to destroy this people altogether would look like weakness on the part of the LORD to the Egyptians and the people of Canaan. Moses was concerned for the honor of the LORD's name among His people and fearsome reverence from the people in the surrounding lands. Of course, the LORD already knew how Moses would beseech Him in this way. God does not need to be flattered or appeased in any way, but Moses' concern was genuine and the LORD accounted for that in His response to Moses and the people.

    In verses 17-18 Moses speaks of the LORD showing His power greatly, And Moses then speaks of the longsuffering of the LORD, His great mercy, and His forgiving nature towards the Israelites throughout the past year.

    cont.
  • GiGi on Numbers 14 - 1 year ago
    NUMBERS CHAPTER 14

    This chapter is a continuation of what occurred in chapter 13.

    It begins with the people mourning and weeping all night long after hearing the report of the 10 leaders who went into the land as spies and returned with a faithless negative report. They were downhearted because they had come to the edge of the land promised and feared what lay ahead of them in this land-giants/fortified cities/strong armies. They disbelieved God's power and willingness to fight for them in the battles. On top of this faithlessness, they began to murmur AGAIN against Moses and Aaron. They grumbled about being brought all this way only to die at the hands of the inhabitants of the land ahead of them. They remarked that it would be better for them to go back to Egypt or for God to have them die in the wilderness instead of going into the land to possess it only to be slaughtered. They spoke to one another about choosing a new leader to take them back to Egypt.

    These adult Israelites could not trust God, even after all of the miraculous ways He delivered them already and the miraculous ways He provided for them-manna and quail and water. They could not look at what God had done for them and believe that He would continue to deliver them from their enemies. But it seems that in their case, they themselves were their own worst enemy. Instead of believing in God's power and love like Joshua, Caleb, Moses and Aaron did, they murmured so much that they convinced most of their fellow Israelites to disbelieve and grumble, too. They, as a whole, were convinced that Moses and Aaron were not the best leaders for them anymore, even though God had chosen these two men to be their leaders. Their distrust, unbelief, and badmouthing of God's chosen leaders fomented widespread rebellion throughout the camp (of several million).

    Moses and Aaron prostrated themselves before the people and entreated them to repent and seek God's mercy. Caleb and Joshua rent their clothes. ...cont.
  • Homer Baker - In Reply on Numbers 14 - 2 years ago
    40 years
  • GiGi - In Reply on Numbers 14 - 2 years ago
    Shirley,

    the Israelites were in the wilderness 40 years from leaving Egypt and upon entering the promised land with Joshua as their new leader after Moses died at 120 years. (40 years in Egypt, 40 years in exile, 40 years leading Israelites in the wilderness.)
  • T Levis - In Reply on Numbers 14 - 2 years ago
    Deuteronomy 1,
  • T Levis - In Reply on Numbers 14 - 2 years ago
    Please also read : Numbers 13:30, Numbers 14, Numbers 26:65, Numbers 32:8-13, Deuteronomy 1, Joshua 14:6-15,

    Hopefully these are helpful
  • Shirley Jones on Numbers 14 - 2 years ago
    Question meaning of numbers, chapter 14, verse 35? Were the Israelites in the wilderness 40 years or 80years?
  • Shirley Jones on Numbers 14 - 2 years ago
    Number of years the Israelites were in the wilderness
  • Amarin - In Reply on Numbers 14 - 2 years ago
    The Bible is The Word of God traditionally consisting of The Old Testament, The New Testament, and the Apocrypha. Some say the 14 Books of the Apocrypha was removed from American Bibles in the 1800's.

    In many older American Bibles the Apocrypha was placed between The Old Testament and The New Testament because some believe the Apocrypha was written between the period between of The Old Testament and The New Testament. The Greek word for word Apocrypha is apokryphos means hidden.

    The 14 Books of the Apocrypha are I Esdras; II Esdras; Tobit; Judith; The rest of Esther; The Wisdom of Solomon; Ecclesiasticus; Baruch, with the Epistle of Jeremiah; The Song of the Three Holy Children; The History of Susanna; Bel and the Dragon; The Prayer of Manasses; I Maccabees; and II Maccabees.
  • GiGi again - In Reply on Numbers 14 - 2 years ago
    Thank you, Sacha,

    I think it is becoming more common as the rebelliousness of our younger generation seems to be increasing. I could see the difference over the years as a teacher of Kindergarten. As time went by, more and more kiddos came into the school system with increased and more amplified behavior problems. So sad to encounter. I just hope that I was able to touch them with the love of Christ the year I had them in my class.
  • English Sacha - In Reply on Numbers 14 - 2 years ago
    It's amazing , but not in a good way ! that so many of us on here have had such similar experiences with a family member and drugs and mental illness etc . I may be wrong but I'm sure I remember Mishael telling us of a similar situation to yours , with his family . His post was quite a while ago though so I could be mistaken , I'm sure he will let me know if I've got it wrong and maybe mixed him up with some one else . I'm glad everything turned out ok for your family .
  • Kent Bass - In Reply on Numbers 14 - 2 years ago
    Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth
  • David - In Reply on Numbers 14 - 2 years ago
    Abraham The revealed word and will of God concerning creation and mans and from Genesis 3:15 to revelation 22:21 the bringing to pass of his only begotten Son our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It is the only book with all truth on mans redemption and what man needs to be complete body soul and spirit to Walk with God. Luke 4:4 man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

    It is the only book that gives the truth about heaven, the world to come and the spiritual battle that is Going on between God and the devil or Satan. It is the only book that gives the truth on the supernatural the spiritual

    operation of God and satan. It is the only book that when you confess with your mouth and believe in your heart Romans 10:9+10 that you receive the spirit of God and get Born again. It Is Perfect and no other book in the world can make that claim, it is written by men that were told what to write by the Spirit of God 2 peter 1:20+21. It is perfect scientifically

    laws of physics mathematically all of creation is answered and penned by Gods Hand. If you choose to believe you can't really live without it!
  • Abraham on Numbers 14 - 2 years ago
    what is the bible
  • GiGi - In Reply on Numbers 14 - 2 years ago
    Sometimes when we are in the middle of a storm, the best we can do is just hold on to Christ. He knows our sorrows and grieves with us through painful times.
  • Cynthia - In Reply on Numbers 14 - 2 years ago
    Hi there,

    Thanks for that info, it is helpful, and I appreciate the prayers. I will say this, you can't rely on emotions, or go looking for a sign that God is there. I am very thankful for the Holy Spirit, and faith to know that he is always here, regardless of how things look or feel. I guess it tells me a lot about my faith and relationship with him when I doubt or think its an impossible situation. Bless your Mom! I know she endured a lot. Thanks for taking the time to help!
  • Rick - In Reply on Numbers 14 - 2 years ago
    Hi Cynthia God Bless Having a little understanding of your situation, I had a step son that in teenage years got into dope which enhances the mind set of rebellion, and it always starts small. One day my wife and I set certain rules down

    and told him if he ever did ABorC he's moving with His father. The day came he was 18 assaulted the principle of the school in the mouth and was almost caught with pot in His locker, that day we packed His belongings and to his father which it turned out for a brief period of time to be good. Then on occasion we would hear from him and always ask could we send him money, when ask why no reply. For Him it took hitting rock bottom details not worth it he was put in a forced situation but today he's sober as a judge and doing O.K.. When we talk he apologizes for the way he was, I told him don't relive what you can't change, take care of what God gave you now. My wife and I are thankful he's currently not the person he was. As was stated before your house your rules Gods Grace, pray that God Opens His Eyes and cclears His Mind.
  • David - In Reply on Numbers 14 - 2 years ago
    Hi Cynthia If your husband or you are not capable for any reason to physical do what I shared, because its very



    challenging in a number of categories then don't because its not best for both of you and you may have to involve the

    authorities. Protect yourselves first so that your lives are blessed remember Firt commandment with promise.
  • GiGi again - In Reply on Numbers 14 - 2 years ago
    Ok Cynthia, thank you for clarifying. It is your son who is trapped in addiction and you husband and you are at odds about having your son move back home. Is that correct?

    Our family went through this with my brother who is severely bipolar. His troubles began to manifest at about 14 years of age and he got involved in drugs and began criminally offending. He abused is girlfriends, stole from my Mom and Dad and siblings, would come home to stay and then get in trouble. My Dad passed away in 1989. My Mom tried to help my brother, but he just took advantage of her and other brothers. I lived out of town from my Mom, so I was left alone by my brother, thankfully, since my kiddos were very young. My brother was homeless for quite a while, lived in the woods by my Mom's house for some time. He refused to get treatment or take meds once he was released from police custody.

    So, eventually, about 2000 my mom got a 10 year restraining order on him, thinking that by the time the order was up for renewal she'd had died. But she remains alive now at 88. Before the restraining order was up for renewal, my brother became involved with a woman who helped him get treatment. He did successfully and they married about 5 years ago. My Mom was happy that she did not have to renew the restraining order and that my brother is now safe to be around. She is enjoying having him live just a few miles from her and he helps her all the time.

    I prayed for him since the time he was a teen. My prayers were not fulfilled until he was in his mid 40's. But God did answer them. This is my story.

    I hope that God will bring you and your husband to a united front to deal with your son in the best way. I will remember you in my prayers. This is such a heartbreaking and difficult ordeal for your family. I don't know that much about meth, but I do know that it does alter the brain negatively. He need healing on so many levels. May God deliver and restore him healthwise, and in is faith
  • Cynthia - In Reply on Numbers 14 - 2 years ago
    Hi Gigi, No, I don't have 6 children, David on this feed does, and I was just commenting on that. Sorry for the confusion. Thank you for the feedback it helps a lot, however we are seniors now, have raised our kids, and where I disagree with my Spouse is letting him come back in his condition without help. He can't or won't help himself, looses his wallet, money, etc. all the time. He is hoping we will come rescue him again, I am sure, and that is just the problem, because he is literally living in a tent we provided ( 3 times now) because he claims people steal it, if not for all we have done for him constantly and our prayers, I am sure it would be worse. So, I am not willing to sacrifice my life to the point of wrecking mine to care for him, however I can endure to help him get stabilized to hopefully get help. I try to believe and put my trust in God, I just don't think God wants us to sacrifice everything for him ( like my husband is doing). He thinks I am hard hearted about the Son, well, I don't know what I am anymore except feeling lost and damaged myself. I am deeply dreading this whole situation of him coming back, because I do not want to get stuck with him here and all his problems and issues forever. Anyway thanks for letting me vent, and for your advise. Happy Holidays.
  • GiGi again - In Reply on Numbers 14 - 2 years ago
    I'll give you these Scripture to meditate on: 1 Peter 5:6
  • GiGi - In Reply on Numbers 14 - 2 years ago
    Cynthia, if this person is your husband, then, this must be terribly troublesome for you, especially having the 6 children tat you do. My advice, please be very careful about letting him return to the family home before he receives treatment and is recovering well. You may put the custody of your children in jeopardy by having him living with you. These little ones need their Mom more than ever since their Dad is not only unable to parent them, but may be damaging to them with his addiction.

    I also advise you to meet with your pastor, if you have one, and/or someone you know who is a believer and can be supportive to you and your children as a prayer warrior, and also a practical help, such as caring for your children when needed, helping with household meals, and other such matters. You are in a huge fight right now and cannot take care of everything and everybody in your life to your best. So, a dear friend is a treasure. Many on this site are praying for you and your husband. May God deliver him soon.
  • David - In Reply on Numbers 14 - 2 years ago
    Hi Cynthia I apologise for forgetting this point the reason don't mention God or the Bible at this point is he Won't be receptive that takes time, just keep loving and praying and believe for Gods intervention.
  • David - In Reply on Numbers 14 - 2 years ago
    Hi Cynthia This is where it gets challenging, if your husband and you are christians believers we uphold the Word, if he wants to come that's good under your conditions. You don't tell him what to do you always ask, we aren't demanding we are loving. This is where biblical tough love comes in, you make the rules I.E. be there for meals keep things in order, do what your husband and you ask. You love him don't let him manipulate, don't give an inch he'll try for a mile. Nothing valuable around him. If he plans to stick around he has to get a job even if its Mickey Ds if you don't work you don't eat.

    If he wants money why, you control the situation. Last before he moves in talk to him about the rules if he does not agree no deal. We are the forgiving people, but the individual has got to want the help. Also this may sound odd mention nothing about religion or God I don't believe at this point its wise. These are just suggestions been there done that.
  • Know Your Liberty and Rights in Jesus - In Reply on Numbers 14 - 2 years ago
    therevelationofchristchurch DOT Org

    Binding-the-Strong-Man DOT pdf

    Demons run in gangs. This gives us an idea how to pray for someone who is "oppressed". It is a slightly incomplete CHART but we will see these names are mentioned in the Bible when we use the SEARCH BOX.

    It didn't mean Christian people are PO-ssessed. It means a doorway is open & we need to close it. Everyone needs to get rid of anything that speaks of any kind of occult: old records, books, mags, jewelry, even beer tshirts.

    In my experience, demons will flee if we plead the blood of Jesus. But if we don't close the "doors", they'll return.

    With my astrology stuff, I told the Holy Spirit "these are worth a lot of money?" He said someone will buy them and believe as you did. I'm still bargaining.. but then I said, I'll throw them in the trash. He said someone will find them and believe as you did. I had a 35 gallon metal trash can that I loaded up. I needed a witness and a day later a Christian friend came over and I told that I had been saved!! God provided a windstorm so no one would see the smoke. I poured over charcoal lighter and lit it up. It burned a couple of hours. I said: God I do this for You!

    Not everyone has this much trouble. As we see on this chart, the inner workings of the demonic realm. It's FRUIT.

    I came home one night full of Holy Ghost joy, sat on the bed to read the Bible a few. A demon manifested in my 10' high closet. It was like a refrigerator shape and appeared to be twisted branches and roots. Fear oozed from it. I got mad. Did it think I was going to run screaming from the room? I leaned over and kicked the door shutprayingtake your fears and GO into outer darkness and roam forever! In Jesus Name.

    We have to know who we are in Jesus? Victorious!! And deal with it as it happens. They come back periodically to see if we still mean it?

    Read your Bible and model your life after Jesus, and the Apostles & Paul.

    Mishael
  • Cynthia - In Reply on Numbers 14 - 2 years ago
    Thank you David! This is exactly what I needed to hear today, because contrary to what everyone tells us, we keep coming to his rescue. He has asked to come home, and I am the one saying no, even though I am grieving and sad about the whole situation, but how can we just say no, since he has nothing and no help. So..it looks like we will try again. It really is about denying yourself and serving in this life, and it is very hard, so thanks again, and I am sure you will hear from me again..I will update you, and my goodness 6 children! Bless you, and yours!
  • David - In Reply on Numbers 14 - 2 years ago
    Hi Cynthia The first and great commandment actually ties into this and in reality all of life, to Love God with all our heart soul mind and strength and love thy neighbor as thyself. I had to learn before I can bless anyone else have got to love me with the love God First, this is not implying you or your husband don't!

    I consider at times this walk to be very hard at times mentally and emotionally because when someone you love, especially family does things contrary to Gods Word which is life,and we are aware because of whats written the outcome we still to the best of our ability stay with scripture. True love[agapeo is not easy] especially in our society and world the way it has become.

    Things to remember James 5:16 second Half The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth

    much, also if you can talk to your son, share with him what God can do not all the things he is doing wrong, we build up not tear down. Remember the love of God thinketh no evil, that still I have a hard time wrapping around my head.

    Don't listen to people who say no one can help Him that's a Lie from our enemy, There is no pit so deep that He Jesus Christ is not Deeper still. Focus on what you can do for Him not what you can't. Last my wife and I have six kids I'm thankful that 2 are Born again and doing well and two are sitting on the fence so to speak and two haven't made up there minds. There all loved equally. Just thought I'd share some heart. P. S. This has always blessed me Turn Your Eyes Upon Jesus look Full In His Wonderful Face And The Things Of Earth Will Grow Strangely Dim In The Light Of His Glory And Grace. Walking with God is More Inspiration than Perspiration. God Bless
  • English Sacha - In Reply on Numbers 14 - 2 years ago
    Hi Cynthia , is it at all possible that the schizophrenia came before the drugs ? I have a relative by marriage that I have known since we were teens . She was hearing voices by the time she was seventeen but didn't tell any one , she used marijuana to try to stop the voices and relax and be able to sleep , so the schizophrenia came first and then she tried to self medicate it away . I don't know how things work in the U. S. A . but in the UK we have a free health service for all our citizens , we pay for it through taxes etc , so by the time she was 21 she had a diagnosis and good meds and a psychiatrist to talk to . I'm so sorry if that's not available were you are . It was an awful time for us all , she is also paranoid , which isn't treatable with meds . I watched my step sister disappear and she was replaced by this poor wretched soul who we didn't know how to help . She leads a reasonably normal life now . She has a husband and an almost grown up son and as long as she takes her meds she is fine . It was a very hard and distressing road for us all though , you will have to try and toughen up and steel yourself to be very strong , you have to learn to fight for your loved one when they are unable to fight for themselves . Pray day and night for God's help . It will come .


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