Thank you DWL. It's true in what you state about arguing a point & we'll always find Scripture to support our view to the rejection or avoidance of others. However, as Christians having come to believe a certain doctrine in a particular way (whether being taught from the pulpit, a book, the Web, the musings of our minds, etc.), we need to learn & consider all of the Word of God to formulate a true (or, as best as we are able) understanding of that doctrine or teaching. This is what I hope to see from the dear ones who come here to share their insights & beliefs, that they take in ALL of Scripture to learn about a doctrine & not come forward with a belief & then use Scriptures to support it. This doesn't help anyone - only their egos. And that is why, when I, or others give other Scriptures for them to consider on a subject (e.g. the Trinity), very rarely will they refer to them or exegete them as that would certainly introduce doubt in their minds (or, maybe due to an inability to deal with them). So I wonder what they would do to such Scriptures when they read them in the normal course of study - how would they force an interpretation to them to conform to their belief? And many preachers are complicit in this as their congregants are so enthralled by their charisma, skilful use of the Word, & many supporting Scriptures, that they think that the final correct answer is now in their possession. Rather than further 'searching' the Word, most accept readily what is being fed to them, not realizing that even ministers of the Word can be in error.
So, is the correct understanding of a doctrine necessary to be saved? Mostly, No. Unless the matter of the relationship between faith & works is not addressed. What spiritual carnage is left by well meaning Christians who fail to ensure that the enquirer clearly understands that it is only faith in Jesus that saves us, by God's unmerited Grace given to us & nothing, no nothing, of ourselves or our works can play a part in it.
Chris some people love to argue and that is about all they care for. There are some scriptures that agree with both if we use only chosen scriptures. But I am interested in getting people born again- Jesus said you must be born again. Changed into a new creature old things passed away. Stop lying, stealing, adultery, fornicating, all unrighteousness- follow peace with all men and Holiness without which No man shall see the Lord.
ty for the bible to read i read everyday but i like it only for pc i read on p tho but who ever i sent this to ty for the read of the lord jesues christ and u better answer my response
The word used for 'Judgement' can also mean 'Justice'. God often said that He required Judgement & Justice from those who were kings & leaders of His people. We know that God is both a Just God & a God Who will also Judge. He takes in all the facts of the case, including what man does not see, & then gives His Judgement. Though man will always fall short of God's Standard for Justice, God still expects him to give his best in weighing up the matters before them & thus give the correct Judgement. When God gives His Judgement, it will be absolutely correct, at which time the wicked will be dealt with & removed, but His people will be preserved.
hi you have very great bible i love when god help me and help me when i need help and he wake me up can you tell god i love him and im pray to god so much thanks for everything loveeeeeeeeeee youu so muchhhhhh.
The Jews generally pray facing Jerusalem, as Muslims do facing Mecca. The Scripture that Jews use to support this is found in 1 Kings 8:35,36: "When heaven is shut up, and there is no rain, because they have sinned against thee; if they pray toward this place, and confess thy name, and turn from their sin, when thou afflictest them: Then hear thou in heaven, and forgive the sin of thy servants, and of thy people Israel, that thou teach them the good way wherein they should walk, and give rain upon thy land, which thou hast given to thy people for an inheritance".
Other supporting Scriptures: Daniel 6:10 and Psalm 5:7
When Jesus prayed, He looked up towards Heaven, even though He was in Jerusalem when He could have faced the Temple. ( John 17:1). Also, Luke 9:16. However, when the eyes of the Jews are opened & they see, recognize & put their faith in Jesus Christ, then their eyes will no longer be turned to Jerusalem.
Israeli Jews pull their prayer shawl over their heads to pray. Scripture says to enter the closet to pray. They do not face east like the Palestinians do.
Example:
Revelation 16:12
And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the East might be prepared.
Kings from the East traveled to Bethlehem to see Jesus after his birth. They followed the prophetic writings about his birth.
There are even prophesies about the Abrahamic Accord that recently was signed between Israel and the UAE (Arab nations). It's interesting to follow the process of Prophesy with the daily news. Even tho our national news media barely speaks of it. Obviously they have little knowledge about it.
Isaiah 45:5-7 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: 6That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. 7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
So, as you believe, that in Jesus is found the Godhead (Father, Son & Holy Spirit), which in a sense is true, since the Godhead is just that - without one the others aren't complete in Unity. But this now raises two other problems:
a. Mark 14:36: "And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt." If Jesus is now God on Earth without a God in Heaven, then to Whom is Jesus crying out to? And for what reason? Surely, it can't be a cry to Himself as God the Father, since that becomes nonsense & also that Heaven is now devoid of the Divine.
b. 1 Peter 3:22; Hebrews 1:3, 8:1, 12:2; Romans 8:34, etc. All these Scriptures show us that Jesus is now seated at the Father's right Hand & Jesus Himself said, "I go to the Father" ( John 16:16). How should I understand such declarations if the Father only exists now in the Person of Jesus? Is Jesus going to His Father that is already Himself? Such interpretations are mind-boggling that even go past the mystery of the Trinity. I'm sorry, but what you expect me to believe goes into the realm of extra-biblical claims & would need some careful explanation. May the Lord lead us into His Truth.
Rev. Autrey, indeed Isaiah 9:6 does say that (Jesus) will be called Everlasting Father & the Mighty God. He was & is every part that completes the Godhead as revealed to us. In Romans 8:9 we also read "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." Here Paul speaks of both God's Spirit & Christ's Spirit - self same Spirit without Whom, the Godhead would be incomplete & we would not be children of God, indwelt & sealed by Him.
And John 14:17, "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." If one removes God the Father & say that Jesus is now our God (post incarnation), then one is compelled to do likewise to His Spirit. If one does not do so, then we would have a Binity, & that too is unacceptable.
Re: John 1:1 ff: true, the Word of God is God - God cannot be seen without the His Word & His Spirit. But why should John say, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."? Wouldn't it be easier to say that "In the beginning God was there" & just leave off "the Word"? So just say, that "this God then became flesh & dwelt among us". That would easily transfer the position of God to Jesus on Earth. But maybe, the Word has something to do with that part of the Godhead that was sent to the Earth to become a man & to fulfil the Father's Will in bringing forth the Word to His people & be the sacrificial Lamb for His people.
You cannot twist the Word, to suit your perceptions. Revelation 22:18-19
Search Kings, Chronicles, Psalms and you'll not see the name of Jesus. David perceived the promise of the Savior.
Isaiah 6: he SAW the Lord. "Saw" is a vision sent from God. His first thought was of his unclean lips.
He was Hearing from the Godhead: verse 8.
"US". That is all 3 persons together, speaking, what his message was.
He, The Father, sent His Word (Jesus) and Healed (action, the Holy Spirit) them. 'Them' is always humankind.
Reverend:
What you believe is your perception. It's not Scripture. To teach it to babies and lambs is responsibility you do not want to pay. Write a Book. Don't touch the little ones.
Romans 16:17-18 - Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. 2 John 1:9 - Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth NOT in the doctrine of Christ, HATH NOT God. He that ABIDES in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. Romans 16:18 - For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
Further comment: to the body of Christ: you have the responsibility to search out in the Bible Yourself, what is truth and what is Not Truth. Start in Romans.
Yes, I am saying to you that "there is no God in Heaven but Jesus!"
Let me explain:
In Isaiah 9:6 we read this of Jesus: "For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace, and the Mighty God. " Did you get that? This Scripture says that the child that was born to us that Christmas day is the Mighty God, and no amount of human reasoning can change it.
Luke 1:42-43 says this of this child: "Elizabeth gave a glad cry and said to Mary, YHWH God has blessed you above all other women, and your Child is blessed. What an honor this is, that the mother of God would visit me." Translated" The mother of the Mighty God.
So by saying that "He sent forth His Word clothed in flesh to do his will," you are going against everything that the prophet Isaiah and Elizabeth just said to us. Meaning, the "Word" mentioned in John 1:1 is not God's spoken word. It is God himself. So we can read verse 14 like this: "So Jesus (meaning God himself) became flesh and lived among us!"
See, what you are doing wrong is not understanding how God as Jesus speaks to us in the Gospels; i.e., in Trinitarian form. He speaks to us as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, all three names of the same God. This should not be surprising to us because as people made in Jesus' image, all three of our names refer to us.
So when Jesus says the "Father sent me" he is speaking of himself by his other name. But we call him Jesus because he wants us to.
To this end, we see YHWH God saying to Moses in Exodus 3:14, "Just tell them 'I Am' has sent you." But by God just giving Moses the unfinished name "I Am," we are left short of the full revelation. This is why we see Jesus in the Gospels finishing the revelation of the name he gave to Moses by saying, "I Am"... Jesus.
To clarify, are you suggesting that there is no God in Heaven except Jesus, Who is God? Or, maybe that Jesus is Our God, so the God in Heaven is no longer our God? It would be difficult to prove that only Jesus (as God) is presently in Heaven.
To do so, then a lot of other Scriptures would have to be negated, when Jesus says: John 16:16.17 "I go to the Father"; John 20:17 "I ascend to my Father...and to My God"; Hebrews 8:1, 10:12, Mark 16:19, Romans 8:34, 1 Peter 3:22 "at the right Hand of God" & many more.
I earnestly hope that I have misunderstood your comments as the abundance of Scripture is given for us to know that there is still a God in Heaven & His Word made flesh has now ascended victorious & glorious, seated at His Father's right Hand, receiving the worship as One inclusive in the eternal Godhead.
You said: "The mystery of the Trinity, then, is not in God dividing himself into 2 or 3 separate parts. The mystery is in the way Jesus speaks to us." With the Scriptures before us, and they don't lie, the "mystery of the Trinity" in part, is that the Eternal God has in His Love, chosen to give of Himself as the only Sacrifice that would satisfy His demands of justice & redemption. An unblemished animal was a temporal covering for sin which could never remove the guilt & consequences of sin. God had to provide His Own Lamb, which He did ( Isaiah 53:7, John 1:29), which no animal or man could fulfil. God the Father did not leave Heaven to accomplish this task but He sent forth His Word clothed in flesh to do so ( John 1:1-14) & called this Word, His beloved Son. God also sent forth His Spirit to empower His Son for service & power to all who repent & call upon Him that they too may be one as They are One ( John 17:21-26).
God cannot be divided into three parts, else we might conclude, three gods. He has revealed Himself in His Fullness, in tri-unity, without which He could not be the God He reveals to us & what He accomplishes for us. Blessings.
The sin of the Christian Church is it's refusal to say Jesus is it's God, the very one who made us and keeps us alive. Jesus said it like this in John 8:24: "You are from below; I am not. That is why I said that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am who I say I am, you will die in your sins."
John says it like this in John in John 1:1, "... and he was God." And Thomas said to Jesus in John 20:28: "My Lord and my God."
Then Jesus said to Thomas, "You are blessed because you have seen me, but more blessed are those who haven't seen me but believe anyway."
As you can see then, Jesus is our God, the one who came and died for the sins of the world, even if the Christian Church wont say so. And this is a sad commentary on the human race. This means that, even today, we we are ignoring the clear warning David gives us in Psalm 14: "Only the fool says in his heard that (Jesus) is not God." And David is a man after Jesus' own heart."
See, David is preaching the Gospel ahead of time, long before it took place, that the Lord he knew as YHWH God in the Old Testament is the New Testament Jesus. This is why David says in verse 7: "Oh that salvation would come from Mount Zion and rescue Israel. For when the Lord rescues his people they will shout for joy." And salvation did come from Mount Zion, for this is the place where Jesus died on the cross to pay for our sins.
So this is my proclamation: Jesus is the One True God, all others are false.
See, God is a single being/a single person like us. He has to be if we are made in his image. The mystery of the Trinity, then, is not in God dividing himself into 2 or 3 separate parts. The mystery is in the way Jesus speaks to us.
In other words he speaks to us like this: "I am Jesus," "The Father sent me," "Receive ye the Holy Spirit."
So, is the correct understanding of a doctrine necessary to be saved? Mostly, No. Unless the matter of the relationship between faith & works is not addressed. What spiritual carnage is left by well meaning Christians who fail to ensure that the enquirer clearly understands that it is only faith in Jesus that saves us, by God's unmerited Grace given to us & nothing, no nothing, of ourselves or our works can play a part in it.
Other supporting Scriptures: Daniel 6:10 and Psalm 5:7
When Jesus prayed, He looked up towards Heaven, even though He was in Jerusalem when He could have faced the Temple. ( John 17:1). Also, Luke 9:16. However, when the eyes of the Jews are opened & they see, recognize & put their faith in Jesus Christ, then their eyes will no longer be turned to Jerusalem.
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
This is speaking about satan/Lucifer. He'll be covered in worms. :D
M.
Example:
Revelation 16:12
And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the East might be prepared.
Kings from the East traveled to Bethlehem to see Jesus after his birth. They followed the prophetic writings about his birth.
There are even prophesies about the Abrahamic Accord that recently was signed between Israel and the UAE (Arab nations). It's interesting to follow the process of Prophesy with the daily news. Even tho our national news media barely speaks of it. Obviously they have little knowledge about it.
So, as you believe, that in Jesus is found the Godhead (Father, Son & Holy Spirit), which in a sense is true, since the Godhead is just that - without one the others aren't complete in Unity. But this now raises two other problems:
a. Mark 14:36: "And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt." If Jesus is now God on Earth without a God in Heaven, then to Whom is Jesus crying out to? And for what reason? Surely, it can't be a cry to Himself as God the Father, since that becomes nonsense & also that Heaven is now devoid of the Divine.
b. 1 Peter 3:22; Hebrews 1:3, 8:1, 12:2; Romans 8:34, etc. All these Scriptures show us that Jesus is now seated at the Father's right Hand & Jesus Himself said, "I go to the Father" ( John 16:16). How should I understand such declarations if the Father only exists now in the Person of Jesus? Is Jesus going to His Father that is already Himself? Such interpretations are mind-boggling that even go past the mystery of the Trinity. I'm sorry, but what you expect me to believe goes into the realm of extra-biblical claims & would need some careful explanation. May the Lord lead us into His Truth.
Rev. Autrey, indeed Isaiah 9:6 does say that (Jesus) will be called Everlasting Father & the Mighty God. He was & is every part that completes the Godhead as revealed to us. In Romans 8:9 we also read "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." Here Paul speaks of both God's Spirit & Christ's Spirit - self same Spirit without Whom, the Godhead would be incomplete & we would not be children of God, indwelt & sealed by Him.
And John 14:17, "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." If one removes God the Father & say that Jesus is now our God (post incarnation), then one is compelled to do likewise to His Spirit. If one does not do so, then we would have a Binity, & that too is unacceptable.
Re: John 1:1 ff: true, the Word of God is God - God cannot be seen without the His Word & His Spirit. But why should John say, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."? Wouldn't it be easier to say that "In the beginning God was there" & just leave off "the Word"? So just say, that "this God then became flesh & dwelt among us". That would easily transfer the position of God to Jesus on Earth. But maybe, the Word has something to do with that part of the Godhead that was sent to the Earth to become a man & to fulfil the Father's Will in bringing forth the Word to His people & be the sacrificial Lamb for His people.
Search Kings, Chronicles, Psalms and you'll not see the name of Jesus. David perceived the promise of the Savior.
Isaiah 6: he SAW the Lord. "Saw" is a vision sent from God. His first thought was of his unclean lips.
He was Hearing from the Godhead: verse 8.
"US". That is all 3 persons together, speaking, what his message was.
He, The Father, sent His Word (Jesus) and Healed (action, the Holy Spirit) them. 'Them' is always humankind.
Reverend:
What you believe is your perception. It's not Scripture. To teach it to babies and lambs is responsibility you do not want to pay. Write a Book. Don't touch the little ones.
Romans 16:17-18 - Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. 2 John 1:9 - Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth NOT in the doctrine of Christ, HATH NOT God. He that ABIDES in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. Romans 16:18 - For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
Further comment: to the body of Christ: you have the responsibility to search out in the Bible Yourself, what is truth and what is Not Truth. Start in Romans.
Mishael
Yes, I am saying to you that "there is no God in Heaven but Jesus!"
Let me explain:
In Isaiah 9:6 we read this of Jesus: "For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace, and the Mighty God. " Did you get that? This Scripture says that the child that was born to us that Christmas day is the Mighty God, and no amount of human reasoning can change it.
Luke 1:42-43 says this of this child: "Elizabeth gave a glad cry and said to Mary, YHWH God has blessed you above all other women, and your Child is blessed. What an honor this is, that the mother of God would visit me." Translated" The mother of the Mighty God.
So by saying that "He sent forth His Word clothed in flesh to do his will," you are going against everything that the prophet Isaiah and Elizabeth just said to us. Meaning, the "Word" mentioned in John 1:1 is not God's spoken word. It is God himself. So we can read verse 14 like this: "So Jesus (meaning God himself) became flesh and lived among us!"
See, what you are doing wrong is not understanding how God as Jesus speaks to us in the Gospels; i.e., in Trinitarian form. He speaks to us as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, all three names of the same God. This should not be surprising to us because as people made in Jesus' image, all three of our names refer to us.
So when Jesus says the "Father sent me" he is speaking of himself by his other name. But we call him Jesus because he wants us to.
To this end, we see YHWH God saying to Moses in Exodus 3:14, "Just tell them 'I Am' has sent you." But by God just giving Moses the unfinished name "I Am," we are left short of the full revelation. This is why we see Jesus in the Gospels finishing the revelation of the name he gave to Moses by saying, "I Am"... Jesus.
So yes, there is no God in heaven except Jesus!
Stay safe,
Rev. Autrey
Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7
Isaiah 6:8
Romans 1:20
Colossians 2:9
Acts 17:27-30
1 John 5:7
John 10:30
There's only 10 scriptures proving it.
However I found another one tonight.
Wow...eleven Holy Scriptures; Divine and Inspired. Written in the Bible on paper and not altered by people.
To do so, then a lot of other Scriptures would have to be negated, when Jesus says: John 16:16.17 "I go to the Father"; John 20:17 "I ascend to my Father...and to My God"; Hebrews 8:1, 10:12, Mark 16:19, Romans 8:34, 1 Peter 3:22 "at the right Hand of God" & many more.
I earnestly hope that I have misunderstood your comments as the abundance of Scripture is given for us to know that there is still a God in Heaven & His Word made flesh has now ascended victorious & glorious, seated at His Father's right Hand, receiving the worship as One inclusive in the eternal Godhead.
You said: "The mystery of the Trinity, then, is not in God dividing himself into 2 or 3 separate parts. The mystery is in the way Jesus speaks to us." With the Scriptures before us, and they don't lie, the "mystery of the Trinity" in part, is that the Eternal God has in His Love, chosen to give of Himself as the only Sacrifice that would satisfy His demands of justice & redemption. An unblemished animal was a temporal covering for sin which could never remove the guilt & consequences of sin. God had to provide His Own Lamb, which He did ( Isaiah 53:7, John 1:29), which no animal or man could fulfil. God the Father did not leave Heaven to accomplish this task but He sent forth His Word clothed in flesh to do so ( John 1:1-14) & called this Word, His beloved Son. God also sent forth His Spirit to empower His Son for service & power to all who repent & call upon Him that they too may be one as They are One ( John 17:21-26).
God cannot be divided into three parts, else we might conclude, three gods. He has revealed Himself in His Fullness, in tri-unity, without which He could not be the God He reveals to us & what He accomplishes for us. Blessings.
John says it like this in John in John 1:1, "... and he was God." And Thomas said to Jesus in John 20:28: "My Lord and my God."
Then Jesus said to Thomas, "You are blessed because you have seen me, but more blessed are those who haven't seen me but believe anyway."
As you can see then, Jesus is our God, the one who came and died for the sins of the world, even if the Christian Church wont say so. And this is a sad commentary on the human race. This means that, even today, we we are ignoring the clear warning David gives us in Psalm 14: "Only the fool says in his heard that (Jesus) is not God." And David is a man after Jesus' own heart."
See, David is preaching the Gospel ahead of time, long before it took place, that the Lord he knew as YHWH God in the Old Testament is the New Testament Jesus. This is why David says in verse 7: "Oh that salvation would come from Mount Zion and rescue Israel. For when the Lord rescues his people they will shout for joy." And salvation did come from Mount Zion, for this is the place where Jesus died on the cross to pay for our sins.
So this is my proclamation: Jesus is the One True God, all others are false.
See, God is a single being/a single person like us. He has to be if we are made in his image. The mystery of the Trinity, then, is not in God dividing himself into 2 or 3 separate parts. The mystery is in the way Jesus speaks to us.
In other words he speaks to us like this: "I am Jesus," "The Father sent me," "Receive ye the Holy Spirit."
Stay Safe,
Rev. Autrey
God Bless