JESUS' own testimony of Himself is wonderful,it reveals in depth the mystery of His existence in the greatness of the Universe created by GOD the Father,full of heavenly bodies,and on Earth specifically He populated the planet with living beings,and He sat in the circle of the Earth: Is.40:21-22:->21Have ye not known?have ye not heard?has it not been told you from the beginning?have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth? 22 It is GOD that sits upon the circle of the Earth,and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers;
That said,we must remember what JESUS said from His own existence:Jo.17:4-5:
4I have glorified thee on the earth:I have finished the work which thou gave me to do( John 1:3&5:17& Hebrews 1:1-2 testify what JESUS said.Check it)
5And now,O Father,glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the WORLD was.(John the Baptist,angel of the LORD,testified about this,saying:Jo.1:18-No man has seen GOD at any time,the only begotten Son,which is in the bosom of the Father,He has declared Him)
Paul testified:Col.1:14-16:
14 In JESUS we have redemption through His blood,even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the INVISIBLE GOD,the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by Him-by JESUS-were all things created,that are in heaven, and that are in earth,visible and invisible,whether they be thrones,or dominions,principalities,powers:all things were created by Him,and for Him:( John 1:3&5:17& Hebrews 1:1-2 confirm)
Acts 4:11-12:
11This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders,which is become the head of the corner.
12Neither is there salvation in any other:for there is none other NAME(except JESUS)under heaven given among men,whereby we must be saved.
Mat.11:27-No man knows the Son,but the Father;neither knows any man the Father,save the Son,and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal Him.
No man has seen GOD,the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He has made Him known.John1:18
You know that "no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of GOD spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit".2Pe.1:20-21.
The author to the Hebrews wrote: Hebrews 1:1-3
1 GOD, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days(last two GODs' Days or last around 2000 years) spoken unto us by His Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of His glory, and the EXPRESS IMAGE of GOD's Person( John 10:30 combined with John 5:17), and upholding all things by the Word of His power( Matthew 28:18), when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
Hallelujah!!!
And Paul Apostle wrote : 2Timothy 3:16-17
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of GOD, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of GOD may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
GOD BLESS
To the only wise GOD our Saviour, be Glory and Majesty, Dominion and Power, both now and ever. Amen.
Brian I think what you just wrote is called blasphemy which can potentially be an unforgivable sin, so you might want to be careful. So you don't believe in the Bible that says Jesus is both God ( John 1:1) and the son of God ( Hebrews 1:8). If you don't believe the Bible what is your motive for going to a Bible website and posting anti-Bible things?
The first man was made a living soul; the last man was made a quickening spirit.
MAN MADE ONLY AS A LIVING SOUL
The Word,GOD Himself,Who is from everlasting to everlasting, self-executing,He has in He Himself the project written since Eternity how to make man in His image,but GOD is Spirit,how could man see the image of His Spirit?It's impossible unless the Spirit be made physically.
The Word-the Word is GOD-GOD is Spirit and a Person,He knew it would be impossible He be known and seen in Spirit,even being a Person in He Himself as Word,so when the time arrived in to make man in His image and likeness,through His invisible Spirit and own Person as manifested Word,two distincts Persons,then He said:Let US make man in OUR image,after our likeness.
The Person of GOD as Word still was in His bosom.The Word had not still been made flesh,then was only a man made of the dust. With the revelation of the Word was given life to the man,through the Word was breathed into the nostrils of man the breath of life; and man became a living soul from the beginning until JESUS.
A MAN MADE AS LIVING SPIRIT-THIS ONLY AFTER JESUS
GOD had planned to make man in His image,but how?once He was Spirit and only One,as whether was alone?First He needed to make an image from He Himself and that's what GOD did with the birth of JESUS.JESUS was born in the turn of the fourth to the fifth Day,in the turn of fourth to the fifth millennium.JESUS was no longer in the bosom of the Father,the Word- Hebrews 1:1-4.
With the birth of JESUS,GOD could fulfill His wonderful promise to make man in His image,a quickning spirit,as planned.From JESUS until now passed more 2000 years,so we are at the turn of the sixth to the seventh and last Day, the Lord's Day,or seventh and last millennium,the millennium of GOD's Kingdom- Revelation 11:15-18,so in fulfillment of what says the Word,the dead shall be raised incorruptible-1 Cor.15:52-, and we that are alive shall be changed- Philippians 3:20-21.
I added Hebrews 1:8 to my verses list, thank you. These are useful when human opinion drifts away from scripture to remind what the scripture actually says.
JESUS is the KING of kings - kings made by He Himself - Re.1:8 and 5:10, and LORD of the lords. Michael is a lord, a Prince of GOD. JESUS sent him to the isle of Patmos-Re.1:1. Revelation 22:8-9 clarify: 8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down TO WORSHIP before the feet of the ANGEL which shewed me these things. 9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship GOD.
JESUS is God- Hebrews 1:8, not an angel, nor Archangel. JESUS and Michael are two distincts persons. By the way, Michael the Archangel fought / contended against the Devil when he disputed about the body of Moses (by allegory we may understand Israel was the body of Moses), and now again he shall contend with the old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world, fighting/ disputing about the Body od Christ: now, even now, from now, in the time of Apocalypse, Satan now called red Dragon, he shall be cast out from this current heavenly environment- Ephesians 1:3-8- into the earth, and his messengers shall be also cast out with him.
Michael shall cast Satan into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more.
Who comes first, Michael or JESUS? It's very important, for in this current time, yes, even now, after around 2000 years or after two GOD's Days- Hebrews 1:1to4- so it is
as the lightning that cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall the coming of the Son of man be. Get ready- Matthew 25:10-, knowing that only lamp- Psalm 119:105-is not suffice to enter in the kingdom of GOD - Matthew 7:21-27 and Malachi 4:11-14.
Michael the archangel is one like unto the Son of man, the difference is that Michael is a warrior, JESUS the Savior, He is the stone which is become the head of the corner. There is no salvation in any other(except in JESUS Christ):for there is none other NAME under heaven given among men, whereby we MUST be saved.
JESUS/JOSHUA warned: ... no man cometh unto the Father, but by me, so Adonai, Jehovah, YHWH, Yahweh, HaShem, Yehovah, Elohim, Yahusha , YEHshia, YEHvah, ten supposed and fictitious names, better, NICKNAMES of GOD, added in the Jewish Bible, and inadvertently copied into the Gentile Bible by the translators, they all are good for nothing.
Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. But who comes first that will cause to happen Great Tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. My Lord JESUS made it very clear, saying: Except those days (this current time) should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
A false messiah is at door, he will manifest himself soon- Revelation 13:11-14 combined with John 5:43-47-AN IMPOSTOR- , he was born decadas ago, understand? It is he the God of the Jews- 2Thessalonians 2:3-4.
My Lord JESUS warned: If any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; BELEIVE IT NOT.
In response to you request, my Bible is written in Portuguese, translated by Joo Ferreira de Almeida, printed by Imprensa Bblica Brasileira, created in 1940, adding a system of biblical references, and a concise or compact biblical dictionary translated from English by Dr. S.L. Watson and wife, Mrs Ana, former missionaries in Brazil.
I'm from Brazil, I live in the south of Brazil, close to Argentina, now it's 1.05 AM here.
As for the Jewish calendar, I agree with you, saying, "Being a Jew does not make his calendar correct", and That's exactly what I tried to demonstrate in my post yesterday, asking the following question: How to explain the difference of exactly 240 years in the Jewish calendar? In my understanding, I find this difference in the calendar of a genuinely biblical people created and developed by GOD very strange.
So I suggested three specifics events at facts that are a stain on the nation's history of Israel , actually shameful events in the history of Israel as probable causes of the difference between the Jewish calendar and the Biblical Chronology. The three events are:
1-The Jewish Calendar begins in Seth, not in Adam, so we have less 130 years here;
2-Jews do not consider their 40 years of wandering in the desert, from Egypt to the promised land;
3-They do not consider also their shameful 70 years of captivity in Babylon.
What other explanation could there be that would justify this difference of exactly 240 years?
NOTE:Not only their calendar is a nonsense,biblicaly uncorrect,as we all can see,but also a devilish colection of fictitious GOD's NAMES that they added in the Jewish Bible by their esoteric, and kabbalistic and spiritist spirit, even calling GOD's name through four capital letters YHWH or YHVH among other nine pseudo names,which are not named by the Holy Spirit,but by the spirit of the Evil,the Wicked- John 8:44.The true and only NAME of GOD is revealed, for example, in Acts 4:11-13 and Hebrews 1:8.
I work with the Word of GOD, and I have already answered your questions several times.
I work with the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD Himself, don't you understand? Two thousand years ago the Word Himself was made flesh by the NAME of JESUS, yes, by the NAME of JESUS, as He promised to His people through the prophets- Hebrews 1:1-3, as I have said in answering your questions. But you are masked by a pretense, and you pretend have not seen, your lack of interest in the Word of GOD reveals who really dominates your life.
I reapeat. I work with the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD Himself, don't you understand? Why do you not understand my speech? It's because you are unable to hear the true and pure Word of Truth. Your lack of interest in the Word of GOD reveals who dominates you your life.
I repeat. I work with the Word of GOD, and I have already answered your questions several times, but not according your evil and disguised spirit, for the Word of GOD -the Word is GOD Himself- recommends saying: Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you also be like unto him-Prov.26:4. And the Word states that "when the fool speaks pleasantly, believe him not / don't trust him: for there are SEVEN abominations in his heart. And my Lord JESUS clearly revealed, saying: Luke 11:23-24 and 26:
23 He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.
24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
26 Then goeth he, and taketh to him SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.
Furthemore, my Lord JESUS left very clear, saying: John 12:47-48:
If any man hear my words, and believe not, I Judge him not: for I came not to Judge the world, but to save the world. But already hath one that Judgeth him:...
Chris, my belief regarding JESUS sat at the right hand of the Father, it is not by your very poor testimony of Him, but by the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD Himself, GOD the Father, understand? Hebrews 1:1-3 among other biblical references.Take a look. The testimony of the Word -the Word is GOD - it is greater than yours, understand? Or isn't it?
You called God "(Theos); Father (Patter;Abba-more intimate); Lord(Kurios), well, by the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, you are saying nothing, your testimony about GOD in your post is irrelevant, insignificant, it was not by the Spirit of Christ, and it was not by the Spirit of Truth and John 16:12-15 confirm / endorse what I am just saying. Unfortunately you keep snaking in devilish doctrines and tares sowed by the Wicked one. --> By the way, "It is GOD that sitteth upon the circle of the Earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers- Isaiah 40:22. Indeed, this revelation which GOD did give to Isaiah explains or suggests why there is not Life in whole Universe except in the Earth, I mean out of the Earth there is not in whole Universe the variety of Life that there is in the Earth, because GOD is sat upon the circle of the Earth.
To finish, you have cited in your posts the NAME of GOD as being the esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist JEHOVAH, YAHWEH, YHWH, ADONAI, EL SHADAI, HaSHEM, so I quoted John 17:6 where my Lord JESUS in His prayer said to the Father that He had MANIFESTED His NAME to the MEN that He, GOD the Father, had given to Him, So I asked UNTO you: What is the GOD's NAME my Lord JESUS MANIFESTED to the men?
Now, now, from your knowledge you said here the names mentioned above are NAMES of GOD, so I wanted to know which of these NAMES of GOD my Lord JESUS would have manifested to the men? The question is mine, not yours, I'm waiting you response.
Well Oseas, from reading of your beliefs, I'm unable to place where you exactly are with this. You were first dealing with the Name of God in Isaiah. You've now quoted Acts 7:53-58, particularly verse 55, "But he (Stephen), being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God". In the NT, Koine Greek is the language used. If you believe that the Hebrew 'Yahweh' written of God in the OT is a devilish name, does this also apply to the Greek word for God: 'Theos'?
You asked, "what GOD's NAME was manifested by my Lord JESUS?" Yet, reading the rest of your comments, it appears to me that you hold to an "only Jesus is in Heaven" position, that when Jesus was made flesh, "GOD called Himself Jesus.." Really!!! So, as not to be mistaken, are you in that camp, that says 'that since God is in Christ that only Jesus is now in Heaven'? I'm hoping that I've misunderstood you, as we know most assuredly that when Jesus ascended into Heaven, He went back to the Father & is seated at His right Hand ( John 20:17, Acts 2:32,33, Romans 8:34, Hebrews 1:3, 1 Peter 3:22, etc.). So, NOT two Gods, but the One God, with Jesus His Son Who came forth out of God now distinct from Him through the incarnation. Thus He rightly fully claims the eternity of the Godhead (the Alpha & Omega), & also receives the worship of all. So your comments are troubling, if that is your position.
It is true Ronald, that most of those Scriptures you've cited certainly show that there is only One God & none else. I can wholeheartedly agree with that belief, that we together share in.
You also mentioned the Holy Spirit. Without introducing the Holy Spirit into this thread but for the sake of comparison & meditation, I'm sure you wouldn't deny that God sent out His Spirit to accomplish His Work in the World & in hearts ( John 16:7-11, & others). How can God send out His Spirit, & yet be Who He is, without being grossly deficient in His Being? Is God now Spirit-less since the Holy Spirit has been sent into the World & how can the Spirit also be dissected into millions of 'parts' (Spirits), filling each true believer with Himself, i.e. with God's Presence in them? Likewise, if God can do so with His Spirit & still be Spirit Himself, & this is a mystery to us, can He not also do so with His Word? Does this leave God devoid of knowledge, speech or thought, because He sent out His Word first by the prophets, then in & through His Son? ( Hebrews 1:1-3). The difference here now is, this Word was not just a spoken Word, but the "Word was made flesh". We couldn't say this, nor have read that any prophet of the OT, having received the Word, was made flesh.
With the many Scriptures that have already been given, I find it very reasonable to believe that this Word was treated just as God did with His Spirit. God sent out His Word in the olden days via His prophets, but the time had come when His Word would be sent out in His Son. If all we had was the account in Matthew 1:20-25 that Mary gave birth to a special Son, from the Holy Seed of God, then yes, this appearance of this One called Emmanuel & Jesus, was indeed a fresh creation by God to bring out His Word, not just in speech form, but in demonstration of the Holiness of God, His Power, His Love, & ultimately, His Sacrifice. Onto Page 2.
As I said I am not the best in explaining my understanding and I will try, I feel you deserve it, for you have been gracious to even discuss this with me.
1 Corinthians 15:47 This is after Jesus was raised from the dead and Paul is saying our Lord. First the earthy the first Adam then the spiritual the last Adam Jesus who did come from heaven when Jesus, God's Son was conceived in Mary's womb.
We see in Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Jesus defeated death because He was without sin the firstborn from the dead the only man who lived a perfect life. After He was baptized and anointed God gave Him authority John 5:26-27.
Matthew 1:20Acts 17:31Rev. 12:5 My understanding is the preexistence of Jesus was in God's plan before anything was created. A man caused sin to enter mankind and it had to be a man to live a perfect life to fulfill and make void the law, God could not do that.
Hebrews 1:5 Jesus is not a God there is only one true God, Jesus is the only begotten Son of God. a man who is God's Son conceived in Mary, who God raised in a glorified body and placed Him on His right side on His throne above all that is in heaven and earth and under the earth.
1 Corinthians 15:24-28; Philippians 2:9: yes, as a Son, Jesus is now subject to His Father & is exalted above all. Yet, the question remains unanswered, 'Who was Jesus prior to His Coming?' He wasn't called Jesus (though some believe in Christophany-type appearances in the OT), but the Scriptures, as I gave earlier, point to Him coming forth from within God.
1 Peter 1:19-21: "If Jesus pre-existed how could he be foreordained?" Jesus was foreordained before His coming to Earth - that was God's Plan & Purpose for redemption. But this verse tells us that Jesus was in God's Plan, but it doesn't speak of where Jesus came from at the beginning; this One Who from God, had framed the worlds ( Hebrews 1:2). I would think it nonsense if any would believe that Jesus, after His appearing, then ascended to the Father, & then made the worlds.
Rather than listing the Scriptures that show Jesus in the Flesh & returning to His Father triumphant (which we all agree to), we need to focus on whether the Scriptures show that He had a beginning before His earthly appearance - and these I gave which have not been addressed. Anyway, we'll leave it for now, as per your wish brother, but if any other 'non-trinitarian' wishes to continue this & specifically to exegete the Scriptures I gave earlier, then I will continue with it, as it is a most important doctrine to understand. Blessings.
To Brother Ronald Whittemore & others. I'm unable to respond to Ronald's last response to me, as the Reply button is missing (probably purposely done to limit the comments in that thread). So this one comes as a new Thread to address those matters.
Page 1.
Thanks again Ronald, and I note that you would like a recess on this discussion. But if I might briefly address the Scriptures you shared & why I believe that they don't answer the question, 'was Jesus' first appearance only from the womb of Mary, or did He exist in another Form within the Person of God?'
To your references:
1 Corinthians 15:47: "the second man is the Lord from Heaven" (not a Man Who became Lord, Who went into Heaven & then returned to Earth as Lord from Heaven - but the Lord Who was in Heaven & came to Earth, unlike the first man, Adam, Who was created from the Earth & back to the Earth he went).
1 Timothy 2:5: yes, Jesus is the Mediator now between God & mankind after His ascension.
Matthew 1:20, Acts 17:31, Revelation 12:5: yes again, all point to Jesus as a Man/Babe Who came from God - but no direct reference to any previous existence.
Hebrews 1:5: indeed, Jesus became the Son of God by virtue of this miraculous Birth, but then God would have created another god, because 'all the angels of God are to worship Him'; & none can receive worship but God alone. You asked, "How could God say I will be to him a Father and he shall be to me a Son if Jesus eternally existed with the Father?" Because God took His Word & gave Flesh to that Word, and this Flesh was brought into the World by the Work of God, which made this One called Jesus, God's Son. Jesus only became the Son of God at the Incarnation.
Hebrews 2:7: Jesus was made "a little lower than the angels" by virtue of His Humanity. It seems there is an order of created beings before God: the angels being above humanity, of which Jesus was made, thus subjecting Him to being our equal.
I thank you for discussing this and I consider you as a brother in Christ. I do not feel I have represented Scripture in any kind of mystical or spiritual way. I am not trying to convince you, but to explain my understanding. I believe Jesus was a man same as the first Adam without sin, 1 Cor. 15:471 Timothy 2:5 Jesus is the only begotten Son of God miraculously conceived, born of the virgin Mary, Matthew 1:20Acts 17:31Rev. 12:5
Take Hebrews 1: 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father? How could God say I will be to him a Father and he shall be to me a Son if Jesus eternally existed with the Father.
Hebrews 2:7 from Psalms 8:5-6 God the Father made and set Jesus His only begotten Son over all His works of His hands this tells me the Father is the creator. 1 Corinthians 15:24-28Philippians 2:9. To me that is simply saying God the Father is superior and they are not coequal, God the Father highly exalted Jesus His Son.
Christ means He is the Anointed One nothing is above God so God cannot be anointed or anoint Himself, God is the one who anoints, as Jesus was anointed with the full measure of the Holy Spirit/Ghost when He was baptized by John the Baptist. We also see in 1 Corinthians 11:3 This to me shows they are not equal, and God the Father is the head over all.
1 Peter 1:19-21 If Jesus preexisted how could he be foreordained? Eph. 1:10
Chris, I may could say more, maybe we can pick this back up again, but I hope you have some idea of my understanding, this is not to end this but just to pause I hope that is ok.
Jesus to me is Devine He is the Devine only begotten Son of God. He has been placed over all that is in heaven and earth and every knee will bow to Him. You do not think He had a beginning; I believe His beginning was in God's plan before any creation and was brought forth in the fulness of time.
Apologies Ronald, I had to attach this Page 3 onto Page 1, as there was no Reply button on Page 2.
We can believe that Jesus is spoken of as that Light (by the text clearly given), but John goes back to the Word of vv 1-3; and that Word of God was made fleshJohn baring witness of Him. Bringing all this together, I can see that the Word of God was in Jesus (as it should be), but the clear word is more than that: the Word of God was Jesus. We know that Jesus, as the Word of God, was instrumental in the creation of the worlds & all things ( Colossians 1:15,16) and He is before all His creative Work & He holds them all together ( Hebrews 1:3). Given what we read in these verses, one would have to re-word the verses to make them mean anything else than the Word of God becoming flesh - or else, none of it makes any sense & would be rejected as meaningless. You've written about 'Jesus receiving God's Word at His Ministry', but how would you explain the following verses in John 1 that show God's Word, not just indwelling the Man Jesus, but becoming the Man ("God manifest in the flesh": 1 Timothy 3:16)? Blessings.
Thank you for your explanation. For me what matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD. As is written, the witness of GOD is greater: this is the witness of GOD which He hath testified of His Son. Hebrews 1:8 - Unto the Son GOD saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the Sceptre of thy kingdom.
You said '(i.e. that Jesus was also a created Being) cannot also be the One 'through' Whom God created all things".
Based in your words the King James Version should or must change what is written in Hebrews 1:1-3, as follow:
1 GOD, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us BY HIS SON, whom GOD hath appointed heir of all things, by WHOM also He -GOD- made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of GOD's Glory, and the EXPRESS IMAGE of GOD's Person-the Word is GOD-, and upholding all things by the Word of His Power(Matt.28:18), when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
Chris, see,
based in the everlasting Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, YOUR TESTIMONY of my Lord JESUS is false, it is fake.
Be careful, because even my Lord JESUS left very clear saying that "out of the heart proceed false witness, and blasphemies, evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts:
Re: Colossians 1:16. 'en auto'. In my Lexicon, I do read it as you do, that 'in Him' (en auto) is given. Though looking at 'en', other prepositions are also provided, viz. on, at, by, with. Without getting too deep into something I'm unqualified in (leave that with Giannis or Jesse), the explanation given for using 'en' for this verse is, "of that in which other things are contained and upheld, as their cause and origin: i.e., in God. In God is found the cause why we live, Acts 17:28; in Christ, as the divine hypostatic, in him resides the cause why all things were originally created, Colossians 1:16 (the cause both instrumental and final as well)." Very wordy for sure, but the way I read it, is that if we see Colossians 1:16 as "For (in) him (Jesus) were all things created", then 'in Jesus (the Divine Hypostatic = the underlying reality or substance), God has allowed all created things to find its origin & cause'. Then could it be understood that if Jesus was the origin & cause of creation, would the KJB be wrong by its translation, "For (by) him were all things created"?
And finally, Hebrews 1:3,4. I can agree with you in part: that He was "made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they". Clearly, this comparison of Jesus to the angelic host was as a result of His Coming & completed Work of Salvation - and of course rising into Glory & seated at the Father's right Hand. And so the Angels of God worship Him (v6). So, now to the word 'made'. You wrote, "He was made, means He was not before He completed what His Father sent Him to do." Again, we appeal to the Greek (& to our brethren here), the word here is 'genomenos' (having become/come into being/happen). Could our KJB have used a word ('made') that does not correctly reflect the original? Loosely, 'made' or 'becoming' can be similar in usage, if made is not meant as 'created' but as 'changed in position/rank'. Onto Page 3.
Colossians 1:15-18 as in John 1:1 what beginning is John writing about, this gives a different understanding, In Colossians what creation is Paul writing about if we look at it as the start of all creation, the angels the counsels of heaven as we see in Job 38, they were before this earth or is Paul writing about the new creation. Is Paul referring to Jesus before He was crucified? Or is Paul referring to the risen Christ? In Christ is the resurrected Christ not the Christ when He first came.
One other thing and Giannis can let us know if I am correct or not in verse 16, by Him, the Greek is en auto meaning in Him as we see in 2 Corinthian 5:17 Ephesians 1:4,9Colossians 2:6 to be in the risen Christ. Paul is talking about the new creation. 2 Corinthians 5:16-19 to be in Christ is to be a new creature/creation and reconciliation, this is this world and in heaven as we see things in heaven is as bad as on this earth and Jesus Christ is to make all new.
Hebrews 1:3-4 Jesus was made much better than the angels, this after He was totally obedient died on the cross and raised from the dead and ascended to heaven above all that is in heaven and earth. and in Him all will be made new. He was made means He was not before He completed what His Father sent Him to do. Matt. 28:18John 3:35John 5:26-27John 6:39 what Jesus did and had was given to Him from the Father.
I know this is short, I may be away for a while but hope to reply more soon.
True, we may not conclusively know the Form He took in Heaven, whether as the Word within God's Person (just as the Spirit in God was sent out), or as another Form outside of God yet closely connected to Him. The issue here is, whether Jesus existed (in some Form) prior to His appearing on Earth. If not, what do we do with such verses as given here? Can we really reinterpret them in any other way? Is that even possible? And we could add Micah 5:2 (a coming Ruler not going forth from Bethlehem, but from eternity), John 3:13 (Who was in Heaven, coming down from Heaven), John 6:38 (come from Heaven), John 8:56-58 (Jesus existed even before Abraham), Philippians 2:5-11 (His equality with God, but laid it aside to come & serve man), & Hebrews 1:1-3 (through Jesus God made the worlds).
I've understood your comments on Jesus' Life & Death as per His earthly sojourn. But unless we can understand Who this Jesus really is (i.e. whether a Creation of God to fulfil His Plans on Earth, or God Himself, He Who was from the beginning), then the substance of this Mystery can never be resolved. That is why textual examination is so important, especially when we can see other Scriptures that confirm our understanding. I apologize for not referring to your other comments (e.g. the soul/spirit, firstborn, etc), but wanted to keep this short & focus on Jesus before His appearance on Earth. GBU.
Thank you and I do not mind, I just sent this to S Spencer, I once believed Jesus preexisted but some things just did not feel right, 2 Cor. 11:3-4 stood out. I will do my best to give my understanding starting with Rev. 3:14. The beginning of the creation of God. God has no beginning or end, I understand this as God's plan for all creation began with Jesus, God's Son and all creation came after until all is made new, we were in this plan.
God declared the end from the beginning, Isaiah 46:10. God brought forth Jesus from His plan in the fullness of time, and Jesus's physical existence began with the miraculous virgin birth of our Lord from heaven, Ephesians 1:101 Corinthians 15:47. How this virgin conception was done by the Holy Ghost I have no clue; Jesus is the begotten Son of God if anything is begotten it has a beginning.
Jesus was the second man who came into this world without sin, Man had to live a perfect life to fulfill the law that was placed on man to make it void, Romans 3:19-20. Jesus as a man did this and paid the price that through Him is the only way to our Father John 14:6. My understanding of Jesus being the first in God's creation and everything came by Him and for Him and through Him and when Jesus completed what purpose His Father sent Him to do Jesus became heir of all that God created after Him, Hebrews 1:2. I will do my best to give my understanding although we may not agree we can see and study the other side.
Meditation that brings you to Psalms 45,especially Psalms 45:6-7.
Speaking of JESUS(Ps.45:6-7)-->In Hebrews 1:8, GOD the Father says unto the Son: Thy throne,O God, is for ever and ever:a sceptre of righteousness is the Sceptre of thy Kingdom.(It will LITERALLY be fulfilled from now on: Revelation 11:15 combined with 1Thessalonians 4:16, about the archangel Michael who comes first,comes before JESUS in LITERAL fulfilment of Daniel 12:1-3 and Revelation 12:7-12)
Hebrews 1:7-And of the angels he saith: Who maketh His angels winds/spirits, and His ministers a flame of fire. (Ps.45:3-5 refer to the archangel Michael:--> 3 Gird thy sword upon thy thigh,O most mighty,with thy glory and thy majesty.
4 And in thy majesty ride prosperously because of truth and meekness and righteousness; and thy right hand shall teach thee terrible things. (Re.19:9-And he saith unto John- Write,Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto John,These are the true sayings of GOD. 10 And I-John- fell at his feet to worship him.And he said unto me,See thou do it not:I am thy fellowservant,and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus:worship GOD:for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy)
5Thine arrows( Revelation 6:2)are sharp in the heart of the king's enemies;whereby the people fall under thee.( Revelation 11:15)
Re.11:16-17
16And the four and twenty elders, which sat before GOD on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped GOD,
17saying,We give thee thanks,O Lord GOD Almighty,which art,and wast,and art to come;because thou hast taken to thee thy great power,and hast reigned( 1Corinthians 15:24-27and51-55-Take a look)
Re.11:18-And the nations were angry,and thy wrath is come,and the time of the dead,that they should be judged,and that thou should give reward unto thy servants the prophets,and to the saints,and them that fear thy name, small and great;and should destroy them which destroy the earth
Hello Adam. I consider your question through two separate perspectives: one, before the incarnation of the Word of God and the other, after it. From my readings of the whole Word of God, I don't believe that the writers of the OT nor their hearers would have understood any other concept or acceptance of the God's Nature other than 'He is One & there is none beside Him' (e.g. Isaiah 45:5.6).
Even the "Shema Yisrael" ( Deuteronomy 6:4,5) is Israel's central belief & affirmation on the singularity of God's Person, & any suggestion of a 'compound' Nature of God would be anathema. Also Isaiah 53:1-12 and Isaiah 9:6,7 references to a coming Messiah, which should clearly reveal the Divine Nature of a Coming One, is discarded by them, then & now. So, anything of a Triune God must be rejected by the Jew, & only the operation of God by His Spirit (i.e. God revealing Himself & working before them) should be acceptable to them (e.g. Psalm 51:10,11; Isaiah 11:2; & many others). As believers though, we can see the Triune God in operation in the whole Bible, but Israel is blinded to this Truth & their hearts hardened.
When Jesus came & spoke (e.g. John 16:27,28; John 17:5), He declared His Divine Nature, that which was not revealed before. So your reference ( Matthew 22:32), speaks primarily of the One Nature of God; but to those who believe, having received salvation through Jesus Christ, know that the God of Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob was always the Triune God, Who would one day manifest Himself fully to a needy world: God's Word first by the prophets, now given through His Word made flesh ( Hebrews 1:1-3) . What Israel knew of the One God then, should have revealed the full Nature of a Triune God at the appearance of their Messiah. But their eyes were blinded & hearts hardened. Therefore, as Christians, I believe that we should see God (in the OT & NT) as a Triune God, manifesting Himself also as His Word and His Spirit going forth to accomplish His Will over His creation.
Next I wish to speak of how God' character is "QUINTESSENTIAL"
Which means the highest, purest, most perfect, supreme manifestation, example, incarnation, type of the essence of something, the express image.
Jesus is the quintessential expression of God.
Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of His glory, and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on High."
Colossians 2:9 "For in Him dwelleth ALL the fullness of the Godhead bodily"
John 14:9 "Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip?
He that hath seen me hath seen the Father,, and how saith though then: Show us the Father?
Jesus is God in the flesh. He is the Son of the Father eternally and one with the Father and the Holy Spirit. The Godhead is three Persons in one Godhead. Not three gods, but one. Jesus became man to save us and to show us a fleshy person of the Godhead, that is in union with the Godhead as the Word made flesh. Jesus is the perfect manifestation of true God. There is no other who can truly and perfectly represent God to us. Jesus is the only one who came from within the Godhead to earth to live as a man for us. The Holy Spirit is the only Spirit who came from within the Godhead to come to live in us. When Jesus came to earth, the Father and the Spirit were in Him yet still separate Persons from Him. And when the Holy Spirit lives in us, the Father and the Son lives in each of us, yet are still separate Persons. There are not multiple Fathers and Sons and Holy Spirits inhabiting every believer that every has lived. There is only one. God who is everywhere present all the time and specifically present in every believer. This is a mystery, but it is real and true. God has told us so in His Word that is truly true.
In heaven, if Jesus is the only one we see of the Godhead, we will truly be seeing the Godhead.
Didn't you understand yet? Around 4000 years after Adam GOD still was working, don't you learn this yet, or don't you believe in the Word of GOD? JOHN 5:17 - Jesus said to the keepers of Sabbath day: My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. By the way, when my Lord JESUS said that to the Jews, it laready was the beginning of the fith GOD's Day, don't you know of this? Why GOD the Father still was working in the turn from the fourth to the fifth GOD's Day? Now, now, it because GOD the Father had established for He Himself, since the beginning, to work 6 Days and to rest in the seventh Day. Now, now, the seventh GOD's Day is now, even now, from now on, understand? From Adam until this current time have passed around 6000 years complete. So, you and everyone who thinks like you, must understand that only now, even now, from now on, will GOD the Father rest from His works. Again: It was still the fourth Day, so, understand, JESUS, the Greater Light, said to the Jews: My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Of course, GOD and my Lord JESUS was working in the fourth Day, GOD the Father and JESUS are One, dispite being two distincts Persons- Hebrews 1:1-3- , and as you know, "without my Lord JESUS was not any thing made that was made"- John 1:3.
Be sure that GOD the Father rests only now in the seventh and last Day, and my Lord JESUS takes command of the Universe and History, in Time and Space, now from this seventh Day onwards. And in the kingdom of GOD- Revelation 11:15 combined with Luke 20:35-36- , which will be established now in the seventh GOD's Day , no seventh-day keeper will come in with his deceptive doctrine, whose doctrine was invented by the seducing spirit of Devil - Genesis 3:1- , and it was sowed through those which departed from the faith- Galatians 3:11, giving heed to doctrines of devils.
Be careful or then get ready
The Word is GOD, what matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, understand? There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
The theory or doctrine of the Law was invented and was sowed by those which interpreted the Law from a human perspective, in fact a stumbling block- Genesis 3:1, not from GOD's perspective- Matthew 16:23.
JESUS said: John 7:38-He that believes on me,as the Scripture has said,out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Thus, about Sababath,for the understanding of all of us here,I would ask for you: Do you believe in the Word made flesh,Lord JESUS? You know that The Word is GOD,right?The Word made flesh-Lord JESUS-,He Himself preached,saying:Mat.11:17-All the prophets and the Law prophesied until John,period.Therefore,GOD Himself established the Law to last 1500 years,from Moses until JESUS,no more,no more than this.
See,JESUS was not abolishing the Law His Father gave to Moses,it's evident: JESUS and the Father are One,although be two distincts Persons- Hebrews 1:3 & 8-, so,in fact,JESUS was only clarifying the period of validity of the Law given to Moses by His Father. GOD the Father had established The Law by His own power, the period of validity or prevalence of the Law lasted from Moses until JESUS specifically, understand?And JESUS only preached what GOD commanded Him to say to the people.JESUS said:Jo.12:49-I have not spoken of myself;but the Father which sent me,He gave me a commandment,what I should say,and what I should speak.
That said, keeping the Sabbath day over time after grace came, i.e.after JESUS came,these people do not do this by the Spirit of Christ,but by the letter written in the stone,according OT,the letter kills,and also they keep Sabbath day according to the calendar created and developed by devilish/satanic worshipers of the Beast of sea-Revevelation 13:1-10.
The true followers of my Lord JESUS do not fight against the Law of GOD given to Moses,but against seducing spirits,and doctrines of devils,speaking lies in hypocrisy;having their conscience seared with a hot iron.
All there is to know about our LORD SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST is in scripture. Let us study to show ourselves approved, with the knowledge of being able to discern and apply HIS word daily as it glorifies HIM. 2 Timothy 2:15
May we add daily unto our knowledge and wise application the attributes and character of our GOD the LORD JESUS. Colossians 3; 2 Peter 1
(many more)
Numbers 6
24 The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
25 The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
26 The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.
27 And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them.
John 10:34- seems to be a popular verse here. People want to believe they are a god, is that what's happening here? That would be a gross misinterpretation. You know this is a quote with a question mark at the end, right? Let's be honest about it. Here's the commentary for that:
Christ's argument is: If your law calls judges gods, why should I be held guilty of blasphemy for saying that I am the Son of God?
As per the other argument trying to discredit the word "one" sounds like your argument is that one doesn't really mean one, because Jesus used it to describe believers being one. I don't see how being one in unity as Christ's body somehow means that all the Bible verses about Jesus being God and divine suddenly don't apply? The verse about the Father and Son being one is only one of MANY verses competing the picture. The Bible already says Jesus the Word is God so how can you disregard that?
God: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1 KJV
You: Word was "NOT" God?
"Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also." John 8:19 KJV
Have you thought about how your belief reconciles with verses like this above?
Isaiah 7:14 -
Yes, Jesus is called Immanuel which means "God with us". People called Jesus "God". He's King of King and Lord of Lords. Alpha and Omega, first and last. Do you believe Jesus is Lord? I believe that is a requirement for even being a Christian. A Christ follower should know who Christ is.
1 John 5:7-8
John 10:30
John 8:19
Genesis 1:26
Genesis 11:6-7 (plural "us" which includes Jesus, as per John 1:1)
That said,we must remember what JESUS said from His own existence:Jo.17:4-5:
4I have glorified thee on the earth:I have finished the work which thou gave me to do( John 1:3&5:17& Hebrews 1:1-2 testify what JESUS said.Check it)
5And now,O Father,glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the WORLD was.(John the Baptist,angel of the LORD,testified about this,saying:Jo.1:18-No man has seen GOD at any time,the only begotten Son,which is in the bosom of the Father,He has declared Him)
Paul testified:Col.1:14-16:
14 In JESUS we have redemption through His blood,even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the INVISIBLE GOD,the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by Him-by JESUS-were all things created,that are in heaven, and that are in earth,visible and invisible,whether they be thrones,or dominions,principalities,powers:all things were created by Him,and for Him:( John 1:3&5:17& Hebrews 1:1-2 confirm)
Acts 4:11-12:
11This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders,which is become the head of the corner.
12Neither is there salvation in any other:for there is none other NAME(except JESUS)under heaven given among men,whereby we must be saved.
Mat.11:27-No man knows the Son,but the Father;neither knows any man the Father,save the Son,and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal Him.
No man has seen GOD,the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He has made Him known.John1:18
Thank you for your significative reply.
You know that "no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of GOD spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit".2Pe.1:20-21.
The author to the Hebrews wrote: Hebrews 1:1-3
1 GOD, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days(last two GODs' Days or last around 2000 years) spoken unto us by His Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of His glory, and the EXPRESS IMAGE of GOD's Person( John 10:30 combined with John 5:17), and upholding all things by the Word of His power( Matthew 28:18), when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
Hallelujah!!!
And Paul Apostle wrote : 2Timothy 3:16-17
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of GOD, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of GOD may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
GOD BLESS
To the only wise GOD our Saviour, be Glory and Majesty, Dominion and Power, both now and ever. Amen.
Jude 1:25
MAN MADE ONLY AS A LIVING SOUL
The Word,GOD Himself,Who is from everlasting to everlasting, self-executing,He has in He Himself the project written since Eternity how to make man in His image,but GOD is Spirit,how could man see the image of His Spirit?It's impossible unless the Spirit be made physically.
The Word-the Word is GOD-GOD is Spirit and a Person,He knew it would be impossible He be known and seen in Spirit,even being a Person in He Himself as Word,so when the time arrived in to make man in His image and likeness,through His invisible Spirit and own Person as manifested Word,two distincts Persons,then He said:Let US make man in OUR image,after our likeness.
The Person of GOD as Word still was in His bosom.The Word had not still been made flesh,then was only a man made of the dust. With the revelation of the Word was given life to the man,through the Word was breathed into the nostrils of man the breath of life; and man became a living soul from the beginning until JESUS.
A MAN MADE AS LIVING SPIRIT-THIS ONLY AFTER JESUS
GOD had planned to make man in His image,but how?once He was Spirit and only One,as whether was alone?First He needed to make an image from He Himself and that's what GOD did with the birth of JESUS.JESUS was born in the turn of the fourth to the fifth Day,in the turn of fourth to the fifth millennium.JESUS was no longer in the bosom of the Father,the Word- Hebrews 1:1-4.
With the birth of JESUS,GOD could fulfill His wonderful promise to make man in His image,a quickning spirit,as planned.From JESUS until now passed more 2000 years,so we are at the turn of the sixth to the seventh and last Day, the Lord's Day,or seventh and last millennium,the millennium of GOD's Kingdom- Revelation 11:15-18,so in fulfillment of what says the Word,the dead shall be raised incorruptible-1 Cor.15:52-, and we that are alive shall be changed- Philippians 3:20-21.
JESUS is the KING of kings - kings made by He Himself - Re.1:8 and 5:10, and LORD of the lords. Michael is a lord, a Prince of GOD. JESUS sent him to the isle of Patmos-Re.1:1. Revelation 22:8-9 clarify: 8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down TO WORSHIP before the feet of the ANGEL which shewed me these things. 9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship GOD.
JESUS is God- Hebrews 1:8, not an angel, nor Archangel. JESUS and Michael are two distincts persons. By the way, Michael the Archangel fought / contended against the Devil when he disputed about the body of Moses (by allegory we may understand Israel was the body of Moses), and now again he shall contend with the old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world, fighting/ disputing about the Body od Christ: now, even now, from now, in the time of Apocalypse, Satan now called red Dragon, he shall be cast out from this current heavenly environment- Ephesians 1:3-8- into the earth, and his messengers shall be also cast out with him.
Michael shall cast Satan into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more.
Be careful or else get ready
as the lightning that cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall the coming of the Son of man be. Get ready- Matthew 25:10-, knowing that only lamp- Psalm 119:105-is not suffice to enter in the kingdom of GOD - Matthew 7:21-27 and Malachi 4:11-14.
Michael the archangel is one like unto the Son of man, the difference is that Michael is a warrior, JESUS the Savior, He is the stone which is become the head of the corner. There is no salvation in any other(except in JESUS Christ):for there is none other NAME under heaven given among men, whereby we MUST be saved.
JESUS/JOSHUA warned: ... no man cometh unto the Father, but by me, so Adonai, Jehovah, YHWH, Yahweh, HaShem, Yehovah, Elohim, Yahusha , YEHshia, YEHvah, ten supposed and fictitious names, better, NICKNAMES of GOD, added in the Jewish Bible, and inadvertently copied into the Gentile Bible by the translators, they all are good for nothing.
Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. But who comes first that will cause to happen Great Tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. My Lord JESUS made it very clear, saying: Except those days (this current time) should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
A false messiah is at door, he will manifest himself soon- Revelation 13:11-14 combined with John 5:43-47-AN IMPOSTOR- , he was born decadas ago, understand? It is he the God of the Jews- 2Thessalonians 2:3-4.
My Lord JESUS warned: If any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; BELEIVE IT NOT.
Be careful and get ready
In response to you request, my Bible is written in Portuguese, translated by Joo Ferreira de Almeida, printed by Imprensa Bblica Brasileira, created in 1940, adding a system of biblical references, and a concise or compact biblical dictionary translated from English by Dr. S.L. Watson and wife, Mrs Ana, former missionaries in Brazil.
I'm from Brazil, I live in the south of Brazil, close to Argentina, now it's 1.05 AM here.
As for the Jewish calendar, I agree with you, saying, "Being a Jew does not make his calendar correct", and That's exactly what I tried to demonstrate in my post yesterday, asking the following question: How to explain the difference of exactly 240 years in the Jewish calendar? In my understanding, I find this difference in the calendar of a genuinely biblical people created and developed by GOD very strange.
So I suggested three specifics events at facts that are a stain on the nation's history of Israel , actually shameful events in the history of Israel as probable causes of the difference between the Jewish calendar and the Biblical Chronology. The three events are:
1-The Jewish Calendar begins in Seth, not in Adam, so we have less 130 years here;
2-Jews do not consider their 40 years of wandering in the desert, from Egypt to the promised land;
3-They do not consider also their shameful 70 years of captivity in Babylon.
What other explanation could there be that would justify this difference of exactly 240 years?
NOTE:Not only their calendar is a nonsense,biblicaly uncorrect,as we all can see,but also a devilish colection of fictitious GOD's NAMES that they added in the Jewish Bible by their esoteric, and kabbalistic and spiritist spirit, even calling GOD's name through four capital letters YHWH or YHVH among other nine pseudo names,which are not named by the Holy Spirit,but by the spirit of the Evil,the Wicked- John 8:44.The true and only NAME of GOD is revealed, for example, in Acts 4:11-13 and Hebrews 1:8.
GOD bless
I work with the Word of GOD, and I have already answered your questions several times.
I work with the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD Himself, don't you understand? Two thousand years ago the Word Himself was made flesh by the NAME of JESUS, yes, by the NAME of JESUS, as He promised to His people through the prophets- Hebrews 1:1-3, as I have said in answering your questions. But you are masked by a pretense, and you pretend have not seen, your lack of interest in the Word of GOD reveals who really dominates your life.
I reapeat. I work with the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD Himself, don't you understand? Why do you not understand my speech? It's because you are unable to hear the true and pure Word of Truth. Your lack of interest in the Word of GOD reveals who dominates you your life.
I repeat. I work with the Word of GOD, and I have already answered your questions several times, but not according your evil and disguised spirit, for the Word of GOD -the Word is GOD Himself- recommends saying: Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you also be like unto him-Prov.26:4. And the Word states that "when the fool speaks pleasantly, believe him not / don't trust him: for there are SEVEN abominations in his heart. And my Lord JESUS clearly revealed, saying: Luke 11:23-24 and 26:
23 He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.
24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
26 Then goeth he, and taketh to him SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.
Furthemore, my Lord JESUS left very clear, saying: John 12:47-48:
If any man hear my words, and believe not, I Judge him not: for I came not to Judge the world, but to save the world. But already hath one that Judgeth him:...
Get ready
You called God "(Theos); Father (Patter;Abba-more intimate); Lord(Kurios), well, by the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, you are saying nothing, your testimony about GOD in your post is irrelevant, insignificant, it was not by the Spirit of Christ, and it was not by the Spirit of Truth and John 16:12-15 confirm / endorse what I am just saying. Unfortunately you keep snaking in devilish doctrines and tares sowed by the Wicked one. --> By the way, "It is GOD that sitteth upon the circle of the Earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers- Isaiah 40:22. Indeed, this revelation which GOD did give to Isaiah explains or suggests why there is not Life in whole Universe except in the Earth, I mean out of the Earth there is not in whole Universe the variety of Life that there is in the Earth, because GOD is sat upon the circle of the Earth.
To finish, you have cited in your posts the NAME of GOD as being the esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist JEHOVAH, YAHWEH, YHWH, ADONAI, EL SHADAI, HaSHEM, so I quoted John 17:6 where my Lord JESUS in His prayer said to the Father that He had MANIFESTED His NAME to the MEN that He, GOD the Father, had given to Him, So I asked UNTO you: What is the GOD's NAME my Lord JESUS MANIFESTED to the men?
Now, now, from your knowledge you said here the names mentioned above are NAMES of GOD, so I wanted to know which of these NAMES of GOD my Lord JESUS would have manifested to the men? The question is mine, not yours, I'm waiting you response.
Be careful or else get ready
You asked, "what GOD's NAME was manifested by my Lord JESUS?" Yet, reading the rest of your comments, it appears to me that you hold to an "only Jesus is in Heaven" position, that when Jesus was made flesh, "GOD called Himself Jesus.." Really!!! So, as not to be mistaken, are you in that camp, that says 'that since God is in Christ that only Jesus is now in Heaven'? I'm hoping that I've misunderstood you, as we know most assuredly that when Jesus ascended into Heaven, He went back to the Father & is seated at His right Hand ( John 20:17, Acts 2:32,33, Romans 8:34, Hebrews 1:3, 1 Peter 3:22, etc.). So, NOT two Gods, but the One God, with Jesus His Son Who came forth out of God now distinct from Him through the incarnation. Thus He rightly fully claims the eternity of the Godhead (the Alpha & Omega), & also receives the worship of all. So your comments are troubling, if that is your position.
It is true Ronald, that most of those Scriptures you've cited certainly show that there is only One God & none else. I can wholeheartedly agree with that belief, that we together share in.
You also mentioned the Holy Spirit. Without introducing the Holy Spirit into this thread but for the sake of comparison & meditation, I'm sure you wouldn't deny that God sent out His Spirit to accomplish His Work in the World & in hearts ( John 16:7-11, & others). How can God send out His Spirit, & yet be Who He is, without being grossly deficient in His Being? Is God now Spirit-less since the Holy Spirit has been sent into the World & how can the Spirit also be dissected into millions of 'parts' (Spirits), filling each true believer with Himself, i.e. with God's Presence in them? Likewise, if God can do so with His Spirit & still be Spirit Himself, & this is a mystery to us, can He not also do so with His Word? Does this leave God devoid of knowledge, speech or thought, because He sent out His Word first by the prophets, then in & through His Son? ( Hebrews 1:1-3). The difference here now is, this Word was not just a spoken Word, but the "Word was made flesh". We couldn't say this, nor have read that any prophet of the OT, having received the Word, was made flesh.
With the many Scriptures that have already been given, I find it very reasonable to believe that this Word was treated just as God did with His Spirit. God sent out His Word in the olden days via His prophets, but the time had come when His Word would be sent out in His Son. If all we had was the account in Matthew 1:20-25 that Mary gave birth to a special Son, from the Holy Seed of God, then yes, this appearance of this One called Emmanuel & Jesus, was indeed a fresh creation by God to bring out His Word, not just in speech form, but in demonstration of the Holiness of God, His Power, His Love, & ultimately, His Sacrifice. Onto Page 2.
Part one,
As I said I am not the best in explaining my understanding and I will try, I feel you deserve it, for you have been gracious to even discuss this with me.
1 Corinthians 15:47 This is after Jesus was raised from the dead and Paul is saying our Lord. First the earthy the first Adam then the spiritual the last Adam Jesus who did come from heaven when Jesus, God's Son was conceived in Mary's womb.
We see in Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Jesus defeated death because He was without sin the firstborn from the dead the only man who lived a perfect life. After He was baptized and anointed God gave Him authority John 5:26-27.
Matthew 1:20 Acts 17:31 Rev. 12:5 My understanding is the preexistence of Jesus was in God's plan before anything was created. A man caused sin to enter mankind and it had to be a man to live a perfect life to fulfill and make void the law, God could not do that.
Hebrews 1:5 Jesus is not a God there is only one true God, Jesus is the only begotten Son of God. a man who is God's Son conceived in Mary, who God raised in a glorified body and placed Him on His right side on His throne above all that is in heaven and earth and under the earth.
See part two.
1 Corinthians 15:24-28; Philippians 2:9: yes, as a Son, Jesus is now subject to His Father & is exalted above all. Yet, the question remains unanswered, 'Who was Jesus prior to His Coming?' He wasn't called Jesus (though some believe in Christophany-type appearances in the OT), but the Scriptures, as I gave earlier, point to Him coming forth from within God.
1 Peter 1:19-21: "If Jesus pre-existed how could he be foreordained?" Jesus was foreordained before His coming to Earth - that was God's Plan & Purpose for redemption. But this verse tells us that Jesus was in God's Plan, but it doesn't speak of where Jesus came from at the beginning; this One Who from God, had framed the worlds ( Hebrews 1:2). I would think it nonsense if any would believe that Jesus, after His appearing, then ascended to the Father, & then made the worlds.
Rather than listing the Scriptures that show Jesus in the Flesh & returning to His Father triumphant (which we all agree to), we need to focus on whether the Scriptures show that He had a beginning before His earthly appearance - and these I gave which have not been addressed. Anyway, we'll leave it for now, as per your wish brother, but if any other 'non-trinitarian' wishes to continue this & specifically to exegete the Scriptures I gave earlier, then I will continue with it, as it is a most important doctrine to understand. Blessings.
Page 1.
Thanks again Ronald, and I note that you would like a recess on this discussion. But if I might briefly address the Scriptures you shared & why I believe that they don't answer the question, 'was Jesus' first appearance only from the womb of Mary, or did He exist in another Form within the Person of God?'
To your references:
1 Corinthians 15:47: "the second man is the Lord from Heaven" (not a Man Who became Lord, Who went into Heaven & then returned to Earth as Lord from Heaven - but the Lord Who was in Heaven & came to Earth, unlike the first man, Adam, Who was created from the Earth & back to the Earth he went).
1 Timothy 2:5: yes, Jesus is the Mediator now between God & mankind after His ascension.
Matthew 1:20, Acts 17:31, Revelation 12:5: yes again, all point to Jesus as a Man/Babe Who came from God - but no direct reference to any previous existence.
Hebrews 1:5: indeed, Jesus became the Son of God by virtue of this miraculous Birth, but then God would have created another god, because 'all the angels of God are to worship Him'; & none can receive worship but God alone. You asked, "How could God say I will be to him a Father and he shall be to me a Son if Jesus eternally existed with the Father?" Because God took His Word & gave Flesh to that Word, and this Flesh was brought into the World by the Work of God, which made this One called Jesus, God's Son. Jesus only became the Son of God at the Incarnation.
Hebrews 2:7: Jesus was made "a little lower than the angels" by virtue of His Humanity. It seems there is an order of created beings before God: the angels being above humanity, of which Jesus was made, thus subjecting Him to being our equal.
Onto Page 2.
I thank you for discussing this and I consider you as a brother in Christ. I do not feel I have represented Scripture in any kind of mystical or spiritual way. I am not trying to convince you, but to explain my understanding. I believe Jesus was a man same as the first Adam without sin, 1 Cor. 15:47 1 Timothy 2:5 Jesus is the only begotten Son of God miraculously conceived, born of the virgin Mary, Matthew 1:20 Acts 17:31 Rev. 12:5
Take Hebrews 1: 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father? How could God say I will be to him a Father and he shall be to me a Son if Jesus eternally existed with the Father.
Hebrews 2:7 from Psalms 8:5-6 God the Father made and set Jesus His only begotten Son over all His works of His hands this tells me the Father is the creator. 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 Philippians 2:9. To me that is simply saying God the Father is superior and they are not coequal, God the Father highly exalted Jesus His Son.
Christ means He is the Anointed One nothing is above God so God cannot be anointed or anoint Himself, God is the one who anoints, as Jesus was anointed with the full measure of the Holy Spirit/Ghost when He was baptized by John the Baptist. We also see in 1 Corinthians 11:3 This to me shows they are not equal, and God the Father is the head over all.
1 Peter 1:19-21 If Jesus preexisted how could he be foreordained? Eph. 1:10
Chris, I may could say more, maybe we can pick this back up again, but I hope you have some idea of my understanding, this is not to end this but just to pause I hope that is ok.
Jesus to me is Devine He is the Devine only begotten Son of God. He has been placed over all that is in heaven and earth and every knee will bow to Him. You do not think He had a beginning; I believe His beginning was in God's plan before any creation and was brought forth in the fulness of time.
God bless,
RLW
Apologies Ronald, I had to attach this Page 3 onto Page 1, as there was no Reply button on Page 2.
We can believe that Jesus is spoken of as that Light (by the text clearly given), but John goes back to the Word of vv 1-3; and that Word of God was made fleshJohn baring witness of Him. Bringing all this together, I can see that the Word of God was in Jesus (as it should be), but the clear word is more than that: the Word of God was Jesus. We know that Jesus, as the Word of God, was instrumental in the creation of the worlds & all things ( Colossians 1:15,16) and He is before all His creative Work & He holds them all together ( Hebrews 1:3). Given what we read in these verses, one would have to re-word the verses to make them mean anything else than the Word of God becoming flesh - or else, none of it makes any sense & would be rejected as meaningless. You've written about 'Jesus receiving God's Word at His Ministry', but how would you explain the following verses in John 1 that show God's Word, not just indwelling the Man Jesus, but becoming the Man ("God manifest in the flesh": 1 Timothy 3:16)? Blessings.
Thank you for your explanation. For me what matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD. As is written, the witness of GOD is greater: this is the witness of GOD which He hath testified of His Son. Hebrews 1:8 - Unto the Son GOD saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the Sceptre of thy kingdom.
You said '(i.e. that Jesus was also a created Being) cannot also be the One 'through' Whom God created all things".
Based in your words the King James Version should or must change what is written in Hebrews 1:1-3, as follow:
1 GOD, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us BY HIS SON, whom GOD hath appointed heir of all things, by WHOM also He -GOD- made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of GOD's Glory, and the EXPRESS IMAGE of GOD's Person-the Word is GOD-, and upholding all things by the Word of His Power(Matt.28:18), when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
Chris, see,
based in the everlasting Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, YOUR TESTIMONY of my Lord JESUS is false, it is fake.
Be careful, because even my Lord JESUS left very clear saying that "out of the heart proceed false witness, and blasphemies, evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts:
Be careful or else get ready
Re: Colossians 1:16. 'en auto'. In my Lexicon, I do read it as you do, that 'in Him' (en auto) is given. Though looking at 'en', other prepositions are also provided, viz. on, at, by, with. Without getting too deep into something I'm unqualified in (leave that with Giannis or Jesse), the explanation given for using 'en' for this verse is, "of that in which other things are contained and upheld, as their cause and origin: i.e., in God. In God is found the cause why we live, Acts 17:28; in Christ, as the divine hypostatic, in him resides the cause why all things were originally created, Colossians 1:16 (the cause both instrumental and final as well)." Very wordy for sure, but the way I read it, is that if we see Colossians 1:16 as "For (in) him (Jesus) were all things created", then 'in Jesus (the Divine Hypostatic = the underlying reality or substance), God has allowed all created things to find its origin & cause'. Then could it be understood that if Jesus was the origin & cause of creation, would the KJB be wrong by its translation, "For (by) him were all things created"?
And finally, Hebrews 1:3,4. I can agree with you in part: that He was "made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they". Clearly, this comparison of Jesus to the angelic host was as a result of His Coming & completed Work of Salvation - and of course rising into Glory & seated at the Father's right Hand. And so the Angels of God worship Him (v6). So, now to the word 'made'. You wrote, "He was made, means He was not before He completed what His Father sent Him to do." Again, we appeal to the Greek (& to our brethren here), the word here is 'genomenos' (having become/come into being/happen). Could our KJB have used a word ('made') that does not correctly reflect the original? Loosely, 'made' or 'becoming' can be similar in usage, if made is not meant as 'created' but as 'changed in position/rank'. Onto Page 3.
Colossians 1:15-18 as in John 1:1 what beginning is John writing about, this gives a different understanding, In Colossians what creation is Paul writing about if we look at it as the start of all creation, the angels the counsels of heaven as we see in Job 38, they were before this earth or is Paul writing about the new creation. Is Paul referring to Jesus before He was crucified? Or is Paul referring to the risen Christ? In Christ is the resurrected Christ not the Christ when He first came.
One other thing and Giannis can let us know if I am correct or not in verse 16, by Him, the Greek is en auto meaning in Him as we see in 2 Corinthian 5:17 Ephesians 1:4,9 Colossians 2:6 to be in the risen Christ. Paul is talking about the new creation. 2 Corinthians 5:16-19 to be in Christ is to be a new creature/creation and reconciliation, this is this world and in heaven as we see things in heaven is as bad as on this earth and Jesus Christ is to make all new.
Hebrews 1:3-4 Jesus was made much better than the angels, this after He was totally obedient died on the cross and raised from the dead and ascended to heaven above all that is in heaven and earth. and in Him all will be made new. He was made means He was not before He completed what His Father sent Him to do. Matt. 28:18 John 3:35 John 5:26-27 John 6:39 what Jesus did and had was given to Him from the Father.
I know this is short, I may be away for a while but hope to reply more soon.
God bless,
RLW
True, we may not conclusively know the Form He took in Heaven, whether as the Word within God's Person (just as the Spirit in God was sent out), or as another Form outside of God yet closely connected to Him. The issue here is, whether Jesus existed (in some Form) prior to His appearing on Earth. If not, what do we do with such verses as given here? Can we really reinterpret them in any other way? Is that even possible? And we could add Micah 5:2 (a coming Ruler not going forth from Bethlehem, but from eternity), John 3:13 (Who was in Heaven, coming down from Heaven), John 6:38 (come from Heaven), John 8:56-58 (Jesus existed even before Abraham), Philippians 2:5-11 (His equality with God, but laid it aside to come & serve man), & Hebrews 1:1-3 (through Jesus God made the worlds).
I've understood your comments on Jesus' Life & Death as per His earthly sojourn. But unless we can understand Who this Jesus really is (i.e. whether a Creation of God to fulfil His Plans on Earth, or God Himself, He Who was from the beginning), then the substance of this Mystery can never be resolved. That is why textual examination is so important, especially when we can see other Scriptures that confirm our understanding. I apologize for not referring to your other comments (e.g. the soul/spirit, firstborn, etc), but wanted to keep this short & focus on Jesus before His appearance on Earth. GBU.
Part 1
Thank you and I do not mind, I just sent this to S Spencer, I once believed Jesus preexisted but some things just did not feel right, 2 Cor. 11:3-4 stood out. I will do my best to give my understanding starting with Rev. 3:14. The beginning of the creation of God. God has no beginning or end, I understand this as God's plan for all creation began with Jesus, God's Son and all creation came after until all is made new, we were in this plan.
God declared the end from the beginning, Isaiah 46:10. God brought forth Jesus from His plan in the fullness of time, and Jesus's physical existence began with the miraculous virgin birth of our Lord from heaven, Ephesians 1:10 1 Corinthians 15:47. How this virgin conception was done by the Holy Ghost I have no clue; Jesus is the begotten Son of God if anything is begotten it has a beginning.
Jesus was the second man who came into this world without sin, Man had to live a perfect life to fulfill the law that was placed on man to make it void, Romans 3:19-20. Jesus as a man did this and paid the price that through Him is the only way to our Father John 14:6. My understanding of Jesus being the first in God's creation and everything came by Him and for Him and through Him and when Jesus completed what purpose His Father sent Him to do Jesus became heir of all that God created after Him, Hebrews 1:2. I will do my best to give my understanding although we may not agree we can see and study the other side.
See part 2.
God bless,
RLW
Meditation that brings you to Psalms 45,especially Psalms 45:6-7.
Speaking of JESUS(Ps.45:6-7)-->In Hebrews 1:8, GOD the Father says unto the Son: Thy throne,O God, is for ever and ever:a sceptre of righteousness is the Sceptre of thy Kingdom.(It will LITERALLY be fulfilled from now on: Revelation 11:15 combined with 1Thessalonians 4:16, about the archangel Michael who comes first,comes before JESUS in LITERAL fulfilment of Daniel 12:1-3 and Revelation 12:7-12)
Hebrews 1:7-And of the angels he saith: Who maketh His angels winds/spirits, and His ministers a flame of fire. (Ps.45:3-5 refer to the archangel Michael:--> 3 Gird thy sword upon thy thigh,O most mighty,with thy glory and thy majesty.
4 And in thy majesty ride prosperously because of truth and meekness and righteousness; and thy right hand shall teach thee terrible things. (Re.19:9-And he saith unto John- Write,Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto John,These are the true sayings of GOD. 10 And I-John- fell at his feet to worship him.And he said unto me,See thou do it not:I am thy fellowservant,and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus:worship GOD:for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy)
5Thine arrows( Revelation 6:2)are sharp in the heart of the king's enemies;whereby the people fall under thee.( Revelation 11:15)
Re.11:16-17
16And the four and twenty elders, which sat before GOD on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped GOD,
17saying,We give thee thanks,O Lord GOD Almighty,which art,and wast,and art to come;because thou hast taken to thee thy great power,and hast reigned( 1Corinthians 15:24-27and51-55-Take a look)
Re.11:18-And the nations were angry,and thy wrath is come,and the time of the dead,that they should be judged,and that thou should give reward unto thy servants the prophets,and to the saints,and them that fear thy name, small and great;and should destroy them which destroy the earth
Even the "Shema Yisrael" ( Deuteronomy 6:4,5) is Israel's central belief & affirmation on the singularity of God's Person, & any suggestion of a 'compound' Nature of God would be anathema. Also Isaiah 53:1-12 and Isaiah 9:6,7 references to a coming Messiah, which should clearly reveal the Divine Nature of a Coming One, is discarded by them, then & now. So, anything of a Triune God must be rejected by the Jew, & only the operation of God by His Spirit (i.e. God revealing Himself & working before them) should be acceptable to them (e.g. Psalm 51:10,11; Isaiah 11:2; & many others). As believers though, we can see the Triune God in operation in the whole Bible, but Israel is blinded to this Truth & their hearts hardened.
When Jesus came & spoke (e.g. John 16:27,28; John 17:5), He declared His Divine Nature, that which was not revealed before. So your reference ( Matthew 22:32), speaks primarily of the One Nature of God; but to those who believe, having received salvation through Jesus Christ, know that the God of Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob was always the Triune God, Who would one day manifest Himself fully to a needy world: God's Word first by the prophets, now given through His Word made flesh ( Hebrews 1:1-3) . What Israel knew of the One God then, should have revealed the full Nature of a Triune God at the appearance of their Messiah. But their eyes were blinded & hearts hardened. Therefore, as Christians, I believe that we should see God (in the OT & NT) as a Triune God, manifesting Himself also as His Word and His Spirit going forth to accomplish His Will over His creation.
Which means the highest, purest, most perfect, supreme manifestation, example, incarnation, type of the essence of something, the express image.
Jesus is the quintessential expression of God.
Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of His glory, and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on High."
Colossians 2:9 "For in Him dwelleth ALL the fullness of the Godhead bodily"
John 14:9 "Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip?
He that hath seen me hath seen the Father,, and how saith though then: Show us the Father?
Jesus is God in the flesh. He is the Son of the Father eternally and one with the Father and the Holy Spirit. The Godhead is three Persons in one Godhead. Not three gods, but one. Jesus became man to save us and to show us a fleshy person of the Godhead, that is in union with the Godhead as the Word made flesh. Jesus is the perfect manifestation of true God. There is no other who can truly and perfectly represent God to us. Jesus is the only one who came from within the Godhead to earth to live as a man for us. The Holy Spirit is the only Spirit who came from within the Godhead to come to live in us. When Jesus came to earth, the Father and the Spirit were in Him yet still separate Persons from Him. And when the Holy Spirit lives in us, the Father and the Son lives in each of us, yet are still separate Persons. There are not multiple Fathers and Sons and Holy Spirits inhabiting every believer that every has lived. There is only one. God who is everywhere present all the time and specifically present in every believer. This is a mystery, but it is real and true. God has told us so in His Word that is truly true.
In heaven, if Jesus is the only one we see of the Godhead, we will truly be seeing the Godhead.
Didn't you understand yet? Around 4000 years after Adam GOD still was working, don't you learn this yet, or don't you believe in the Word of GOD? JOHN 5:17 - Jesus said to the keepers of Sabbath day: My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. By the way, when my Lord JESUS said that to the Jews, it laready was the beginning of the fith GOD's Day, don't you know of this? Why GOD the Father still was working in the turn from the fourth to the fifth GOD's Day? Now, now, it because GOD the Father had established for He Himself, since the beginning, to work 6 Days and to rest in the seventh Day. Now, now, the seventh GOD's Day is now, even now, from now on, understand? From Adam until this current time have passed around 6000 years complete. So, you and everyone who thinks like you, must understand that only now, even now, from now on, will GOD the Father rest from His works. Again: It was still the fourth Day, so, understand, JESUS, the Greater Light, said to the Jews: My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Of course, GOD and my Lord JESUS was working in the fourth Day, GOD the Father and JESUS are One, dispite being two distincts Persons- Hebrews 1:1-3- , and as you know, "without my Lord JESUS was not any thing made that was made"- John 1:3.
Be sure that GOD the Father rests only now in the seventh and last Day, and my Lord JESUS takes command of the Universe and History, in Time and Space, now from this seventh Day onwards. And in the kingdom of GOD- Revelation 11:15 combined with Luke 20:35-36- , which will be established now in the seventh GOD's Day , no seventh-day keeper will come in with his deceptive doctrine, whose doctrine was invented by the seducing spirit of Devil - Genesis 3:1- , and it was sowed through those which departed from the faith- Galatians 3:11, giving heed to doctrines of devils.
Be careful or then get ready
The Word is GOD, what matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, understand? There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
The theory or doctrine of the Law was invented and was sowed by those which interpreted the Law from a human perspective, in fact a stumbling block- Genesis 3:1, not from GOD's perspective- Matthew 16:23.
JESUS said: John 7:38-He that believes on me,as the Scripture has said,out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Thus, about Sababath,for the understanding of all of us here,I would ask for you: Do you believe in the Word made flesh,Lord JESUS? You know that The Word is GOD,right?The Word made flesh-Lord JESUS-,He Himself preached,saying:Mat.11:17-All the prophets and the Law prophesied until John,period.Therefore,GOD Himself established the Law to last 1500 years,from Moses until JESUS,no more,no more than this.
See,JESUS was not abolishing the Law His Father gave to Moses,it's evident: JESUS and the Father are One,although be two distincts Persons- Hebrews 1:3 & 8-, so,in fact,JESUS was only clarifying the period of validity of the Law given to Moses by His Father. GOD the Father had established The Law by His own power, the period of validity or prevalence of the Law lasted from Moses until JESUS specifically, understand?And JESUS only preached what GOD commanded Him to say to the people.JESUS said:Jo.12:49-I have not spoken of myself;but the Father which sent me,He gave me a commandment,what I should say,and what I should speak.
That said, keeping the Sabbath day over time after grace came, i.e.after JESUS came,these people do not do this by the Spirit of Christ,but by the letter written in the stone,according OT,the letter kills,and also they keep Sabbath day according to the calendar created and developed by devilish/satanic worshipers of the Beast of sea-Revevelation 13:1-10.
The true followers of my Lord JESUS do not fight against the Law of GOD given to Moses,but against seducing spirits,and doctrines of devils,speaking lies in hypocrisy;having their conscience seared with a hot iron.
Be careful- 2Peter 3:7&11-12 & Isaiah 33:10-14
May we add daily unto our knowledge and wise application the attributes and character of our GOD the LORD JESUS. Colossians 3; 2 Peter 1
(many more)
Numbers 6
24 The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
25 The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
26 The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.
27 And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them.
Happy New Year everyone!
December 30, 2023
Christ's argument is: If your law calls judges gods, why should I be held guilty of blasphemy for saying that I am the Son of God?
As per the other argument trying to discredit the word "one" sounds like your argument is that one doesn't really mean one, because Jesus used it to describe believers being one. I don't see how being one in unity as Christ's body somehow means that all the Bible verses about Jesus being God and divine suddenly don't apply? The verse about the Father and Son being one is only one of MANY verses competing the picture. The Bible already says Jesus the Word is God so how can you disregard that?
God: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1 KJV
You: Word was "NOT" God?
"Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also." John 8:19 KJV
Have you thought about how your belief reconciles with verses like this above?
Isaiah 7:14 -
Yes, Jesus is called Immanuel which means "God with us". People called Jesus "God". He's King of King and Lord of Lords. Alpha and Omega, first and last. Do you believe Jesus is Lord? I believe that is a requirement for even being a Christian. A Christ follower should know who Christ is.
1 John 5:7-8
John 10:30
John 8:19
Genesis 1:26
Genesis 11:6-7 (plural "us" which includes Jesus, as per John 1:1)
Philippians 2:5-8
2 Corinthians 5:19
John 1:3
Matthew 28:19
1 Peter 1:2
2 Corinthians 13:14
Deuteronomy 6:4
John 14:10
John 20:28
1 John 2:22-24
Matthew 1:23-25
Colossians 2:9
Acts 17:29
Romans 1:20
Isaiah 7:14
Hebrews 1:8
Isaiah 44:6
Isaiah 43:11